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Old 12-04-2012, 06:56 PM   #11
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Laying her down awake and leaving her to cry for 5mins at a time is sleep training-aka cry it out. Newborns usually need help falling asleep. At this point she just needs to get good sleep-even if that means relying on a swing, mobile, car rides,whatever. You have plenty of time to teach her how to fall asleep on her own later. Sleep habits(and falling asleep habits) dont form for another few months. As a newborn all she's getting is that she *needs* mama and mama is leaving her to cry for long periods of time(and 5mins is a long time for a 5wk old).

Dont get me wrong-I am not against cio. I used it-exactly how youre doing it now-with dd1. It really helps some children. Just not at 5weeks old.

You could always call her ped and ask for advice there. Has she been checked for reflux or an ear infection(if it started recently this could be why-they are very painful and more so when laying down)?

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Old 12-04-2012, 07:08 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Melinda29 View Post
Be forwarned that people on DS seem to have very strong opinions about sleep training. Hopefully everyone can keep it civil, but this thread may turn into a CIO-bashing. Let's try to just help this mama politely

Yes, I think she is too young for the type of sleep training you are describing. Most sleep experts say no younger than 4 months for cry it out (CIO), simply because it is pretty ineffective. However, the "evidence" that a lot of parents cite about the psychological harm of CIO is, well, simply not there. A lot of websites and books, including those by Dr. Sears and others, are citing studies that cite experts that cite studies....and on and on. It all looks very legitimate, but the actual peer reviewed studies themselves (found in published journals, not websites or parenting books), if one takes the time to sift through them all, have NOT found psychological harm from CIO in a loving family with otherwise attentive parenting.

Okay, now that that is out of the way, I have found a couple of pretty useful tips that I refer to as "sleep training" that I use straight from birth:
-I try as much as possible to put baby down when sleepy but still awake. But sometimes I snuggle them to sleep anyway. They are so squishy and yummy
-I try to wait about 5-10 minutes after baby starts fussing at NIGHT before rushing in to nurse. Very often baby is just being noisy (sometimes very noisy, eyes open and everything), but really just transitioning between sleep cycles. Rushing in to soothe her may actually be teaching her to fully wake up between cycles, instead of learning to ease between them on her own.
-If baby is all-out screaming, I of course rush in the soothe her.
-I NEVER let a newborn go more than 3 hours between feeds during the DAY (4 hours starting around 4 months). Meaning, if she takes a 3 hour nap during the afternoon, yes, I will wake a sleeping baby. I try to make them take as many calories during the DAY. Baby only needs so many calories to thrive. If she gets most or all during the day, she has no need to wake at night
-The limiting of their naps to no more than 3 hours during the day also ensures that they don't do all their sleeping during the day and waking at night. They are good and tired at night.
-I breastfeed, so I also try to stretch the time between feeds during the day, so baby is good and hungry. Then she will eat more and get to the fatty hindmilk, which is where most of the calories are.
-I try to feed every 1-2 hours during the day for the first months, 2-3 hours during the second, 3-4 during the third, and aim for every 4 hours by 4 months. Again, the goal is to get baby hungry enough to eat a LOT at one time. It's not hard and fast, I am not a slave to the clock. I just keep it in the back of my mind during those times.
-I try to feed baby upon waking, rather than nursing to sleep. Like your article said, babies tend to sleep best when they fall sleep on their own.
-I try to limit awake time to 90 or so minutes at a stretch during the day, between naps. Beyond that, most tiny babies get overtired and do like you describe, can't fall alseep on their own and get really fussy when left alone to sleep.
-When my babies got into a sleep regression (when they were a bit older, after they had already learned to STTN), I sometimes used the swing for a few nights to get the, back into the routine of sleeping all night. It often "retrained" their internal clock, and then we could go back to using the crib.
-I try to not worry too much about waking older kids. It is hard to not jump up to quiet them at night, but truly, most kids will learn to sleep through it. Plus, older kids are easier to put back to sleep IME. A white noise machine or fan may help block the crying for your toddler.
-I don't cosleep or co-room. My babies seem to smell me and wake up to nurse more when we tried that. We all sleep better in our own rooms.
-Flexible routines are my friend, but it didn't happen until 3-4 months at the soonest. By then we were usually doing 3 naps a day with feeds every 3-4 hours, with a total of 4-5 feeds in 24 hours.

Three of my four kids were sleeping through the night (totally and completely, no feeds at all for at least 10 hours) by 12 weeks. They did this on their own, without any CIO, and two of those three were totally breastfed. My fourth child was a spitfire and woke at night until she was almost 2 years old. Nothing works perfectly for every child.

Good luck!
I think this is excellent advice as well. My DS woke up so much when he was in a room with us it was crazy! As soon as we transitioned him to his own room around ten weeks he slept much better. I agree that 5 weeks is very young for sleep training.
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Old 12-04-2012, 07:19 PM   #13
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Re: Sleep training

Ahh, I see what you are asking. Unfortunately, she might be just a stinker about it for a little while. Two of my babies did that same thing in the early weeks. Something to distract her like a mobile or the Fisher Price Ocean Aquarium works really well for many babies, or a swing or bouncer. She will likely grow out of it. And if the daycare provider can't hold her for naps, she also will probably learn to not expect it after a few weeks.

I hope you don't mind a little spam, but I do have an EUC white noise machine FSOT. It is this one (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS.../chrisficti-20 for $30ppd. I could ship it asap. We bought it new 2 years ago but my oldest son no longer uses it. I do not have the box. DH and I sleep with one like it every night. It is awesome, very adjustable.

I hope your daughter lets you sleep tonite!

Last edited by Melinda29; 12-04-2012 at 07:27 PM.
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Old 12-04-2012, 07:29 PM   #14
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As a PP said, nothing works perfectly for every child. I would also add that nothing works perfectly for every FAMILY including you, SO, and ODD. And what works for you will change over time.
I agree that 5 wks is too young to be doing controlled checks or whatever they are referred to. I DO think that you coukd start introducing DD to falling asleep in the swing or bouncy seat? Happiest Baby on the Block was very useful for me to realize that the transition from snuggling in mama's belly, to smuggling on mama's chest, to laying on a cold, totally still surface all by myself, would be difficult - and some kids ARE harder than others.
Elizabeth Pantley's No-Cry Sleep Solution is also helpful in encouraging good sleep habits... Not a cio approach at all but rather starting from wherever you are, and getting it to work better.
And i wouldnt worry about daycare- those ladies are magical :-). My DD was the same way. She did not nap unless held til 9 mos but would lay down AWAKE in her crib and nap at daycare!
Hugs mama! I know the sleep deprivation is tough - take care of yourself too!
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Old 12-04-2012, 07:40 PM   #15
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Re: Sleep training

I agree with Melinda also VERY similar to what we've done with our kids. I also second the swing/bouncy seat for the early weeks when you can't hold her all day, but she wants to feel held. My son acclimated to the swing around 6 weeks and I was in heaven! I also had a 12 month old to take care of and couldn't hold him all day (and if I did hold him he wanted to nurse 24/7 nonstop). We definitely sleep trained and have amazing secure kids that sleep well. But it was when they were older (4-6 months) and the technique we used was different for each one. Just remember she won't be 17 wanting to be held during nap
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Old 12-04-2012, 07:42 PM   #16
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Re: Sleep training

Have you tried using a baby carrier and could your daycare provider use one as well? My mom had a baby that needed to be held constant (he had some other problems too like bad reflux, etc). I gave her a ring sling and showed her how to use it with the baby and it made a world of difference. Yes she was still "holding" the baby, but atleast he wasn't crying and she had free hands.
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Old 12-04-2012, 07:43 PM   #17
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Re: Sleep training

5 weeks is far too young. You cannot "train" a 5 week old. All you can do is break her trust in you.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/e...on/8636950.stm

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Old 12-04-2012, 07:46 PM   #18
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Re: Sleep training

Thanks ladies. DD hates her car seat and will tolerate the bouncy seat and swing for about 10 minutes (and really only when the swing swings front to back, not side to side). The swing actually wakes her up (we've tried different speeds with the same result). Happiest Baby was a godsend w/ODD but while it quiets my LO when she's fussy, she also seems more awake when doing it so it doesn't help with the sleep issue. Counterintuitive I know. She seems most comfortable resting on my chest and does great with tummy time (super content on her belly). Maybe once she's consistently rolling over we'll try letting her sleep on her stomach to see if that will help (and not until then).

Might just have to ride this out until then. 13 years from now I won't be able to roll her out of bed with an air horn.
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Old 12-04-2012, 07:55 PM   #19
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Re: Sleep training

@JenntheMomma - I have a Moby that I'll use around the house and out and about. I can try offering it to the daycare lady. She'll have a 1, 2 and 3 yo in addition to LO.

@Melinda29 - Thanks for understanding what I'm trying to say. I promise I'm not trying to neglect my kiddo but right now neither of us are sleeping well I don't mind the spam and that looks awesome - unfortunately it's not in the budget right now.
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Old 12-04-2012, 07:55 PM   #20
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If she's more comfortable on her tummy she may be having tummy troubles. Both my girls slept on me til about 3 months
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