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Old 02-09-2013, 03:45 PM   #11
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Re: Defiant little girl...I have to tell my friend that her DD can't play with DS any

I'm kinda confused too as if you realize she is destructive, even the first time then I'm wondering why she has been left alone at all in your home?

I'm trying to figure out ages...so if rosie and your DS are around 3 or 4 are they allowed to play in the bedroom themselves(buckwheat incident) or in a play room by themselves. Just trying to picture it. My home is very open so I can see the younger kids play, but maybe you can't if you step away to the kitchen or bathroom of course.


When your kids are young you are afraid to overstep the discipline thing with others kids. But the answer is pretty simple....you just let them know what YOUR house rules are. So after a bit they will quickly realize what is allowed or not. Then you say....We don't hit in the house.....We don't use potty mouth in this house.....We clean up our mess etc....that way you aren't taking over disciplining their child, just stating what the rules are in your home. I even do this with the older kids(8,9) who come over and say words like butt, stupid, dumb etc.....I tell them we have a 3 year old and I don't want him learning those words, so no potty/bad talk when in my house. All us neighbors by now have no problem telling each others kids what is right or wrong as after 4 years or so of playing you get more comfortable and know the kids.


On the other hand I have had a family member with kids the same age who were destructive and the kids would argue, destroy things etc. I REALLY distanced myself as it was just too much, for about 2 years and life get's busy when they start school etc. Now that they are older(7-9) they all play much much better, so sometimes it's an age thing too.

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Old 02-09-2013, 03:48 PM   #12
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Re: Defiant little girl...I have to tell my friend that her DD can't play with DS any

I forgot to mention that her mom told me that she hurts their cats a lot. Scary.

I have never had kids that did this kind of thing so I wasn't sure if it was normal or not. I've been thinking about this all day, and I almost feel like if I'm not completely honest I am doing her a disservice. I dont want her thinking that behavior is normal. But maybe that's not my problem...

I can't quote for some reason on my tablet but to answer some questions, usually when rosie does something bad and the parents are there, they do very little. They are very passive and just mentiin something to her like, "rosie, we don't hurt people." But it's very casual and calm and not really followed up. It's almost like they think this kind of behavior is to be expected and therefore ok. When I have disciplined her the few short times I watched her without her mom, I got down to her level and made her look at me, told her that that kind of behavior is not ok in my house, etc. Once she was throwing dirt from a shovel at my DS and I took the shovel from her, told her that if she did that again I woukd be taking it away, gave the shovel back, and she never did it again. She knew I was serious. I thought that I could get a handle on her, I know many kids behave well for others and not their parents. But I just dont think I have the energy to deal with her, nor do I think it's my responsibility to take her on as my project. Her parents need to deal with it.

This is such an awkward situation too because her DH works for my DH. And they are invited to our neighborhood brunch tomorrow but I don't want them to come.
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Old 02-09-2013, 04:01 PM   #13
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Re: Defiant little girl...I have to tell my friend that her DD can't play with DS any

Guess I can't multi quote but I can quote. I know, I should have never allowed them to play in the bedroom. I am totally not used to kids doing stuff like that, my kids and other friends play all over the house and do fine. Never an issue. I guess I just got busy or distracted whenever they (the parents too) were over. Seems like if the parents know the kid is destructive they should watch her more closely. All but the hammer incident happened when the parents were also there. The hole in the wall and the cushion with the knitting needle was right in front of her mother who did nothing. I finally took it away.

You are right, I have been afraid to overstep. I've never had parents at my house who weren't disciplining their own kid so it never has been an issue. I guess I need to grow some and just do it.

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Originally Posted by Leanbh View Post
I'm kinda confused too as if you realize she is destructive, even the first time then I'm wondering why she has been left alone at all in your home?

I'm trying to figure out ages...so if rosie and your DS are around 3 or 4 are they allowed to play in the bedroom themselves(buckwheat incident) or in a play room by themselves. Just trying to picture it. My home is very open so I can see the younger kids play, but maybe you can't if you step away to the kitchen or bathroom of course.


When your kids are young you are afraid to overstep the discipline thing with others kids. But the answer is pretty simple....you just let them know what YOUR house rules are. So after a bit they will quickly realize what is allowed or not. Then you say....We don't hit in the house.....We don't use potty mouth in this house.....We clean up our mess etc....that way you aren't taking over disciplining their child, just stating what the rules are in your home. I even do this with the older kids(8,9) who come over and say words like butt, stupid, dumb etc.....I tell them we have a 3 year old and I don't want him learning those words, so no potty/bad talk when in my house. All us neighbors by now have no problem telling each others kids what is right or wrong as after 4 years or so of playing you get more comfortable and know the kids.


On the other hand I have had a family member with kids the same age who were destructive and the kids would argue, destroy things etc. I REALLY distanced myself as it was just too much, for about 2 years and life get's busy when they start school etc. Now that they are older(7-9) they all play much much better, so sometimes it's an age thing too.
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Old 02-09-2013, 04:06 PM   #14
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Re: Defiant little girl...I have to tell my friend that her DD can't play with DS any

ok....so I've been there with the parents who won't discipline....so then I would take it upon myself to do it if it's in your home....not saying time out etc.....but if she messes up a room then she isn't allowed in that room now. That kind of thing.

I do think the situation will just become more and more of a problem as you will eventually get really really tired of dealing with this. My advice is to distance yourself a bit. If they call then it's a bad time or you are going out. Just try to space it out so you are all not spending as much time together. Also might help to find some other kids to playdate with.


I know I got sick and tired of said cousins boy hitting my boy many times. Mom very passive similar to your mom. Eventually I ended up telling the boy myself...You will NOT him my K........and that was the end of that. He actually starting crying and went to his parents(standing there doing nothing of course) and I said.....he hit K, I told him that he will not hit K again. He's not crying because he got hurt, he's crying because I told him not to do that again, I'm tired of him hitting him. He quickly got the message as I was direct and meant business unlike his parents. Funnily enough he's a sweet guy now at age 7, he just needed more discipline at the younger age(4).
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Old 02-09-2013, 04:08 PM   #15
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Re: Defiant little girl...I have to tell my friend that her DD can't play with DS any

The more I read the thread I realize it's the mother/father with the problem.....of course the kid is like this then.

Don't worry, you will bit by bit get used to what is ok and not in your home or playdates, just another stage of learning with parenting. I can't imagine the whole teenage scene, but I suppose we will all have to learn that too
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Old 02-09-2013, 05:25 PM   #16
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Well that didn't go well. Pretty sure I just lost a friend. I told her that the two kids didn't get along well and that maybe it was their ages, or their dynamic, or something and maybe we need to take some space for them. I also told her that I can't seem to get a handle on Rosie when she's at my house and she doesn't seem to respond to discipline. I suggested maybe park playtime but not at our house because I feel like she needs to be shadowed all the time. I cant risk having holes poked in cushions or the wall anymore. She told me i didnt tell her about that, this was the first she heard, and i told her that we were both right there when it happened. Then things got ugly. She was standoffish and said it was good that we are being honest and that we are on the same page. She wouldn't feel comfortable at our house anyway now knowing how I really feel. I told her I felt like she was mad at me and she said she was hurt because I'm her friend but she respects how I feel. And she doesn't think that Rosie should be at my house anyway. I asked her if Rosie is like that at home, and she said they have their fair share of normal kid stuff. Then I should have just kept my mouth shut but I felt like I had to say that it's not normal kid stuff. That once she told me about Rosie hurting the cats I was honestly a little concerned. That kind of behavior isn't normal for 3yos. She said thanks, rudely. I said obviously you don't feel concerned about it and that I wasn't sure that I was even going to mention it but I am truly worried about her DD. She reiterated that she doesn't want to come to our house and said she wanted to get off the phone.

Super. So I totally alienated her. I don't think it even mattered that I said the stuff about Rosie's behavior, I think the damage was already done when I told we shouldn't get the kids together anymore. What a hard situation. I'm sure my DH is going to be livid with me now, since he is friends with the dad and also his boss. Hopefully those two can let it go as "women trouble" and not let it effect them.
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Old 02-09-2013, 06:02 PM   #17
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Well that didn't go well. Pretty sure I just lost a friend. I told her that the two kids didn't get along well and that maybe it was their ages, or their dynamic, or something and maybe we need to take some space for them. I also told her that I can't seem to get a handle on Rosie when she's at my house and she doesn't seem to respond to discipline. I suggested maybe park playtime but not at our house because I feel like she needs to be shadowed all the time. I cant risk having holes poked in cushions or the wall anymore. She told me i didnt tell her about that, this was the first she heard, and i told her that we were both right there when it happened. Then things got ugly. She was standoffish and said it was good that we are being honest and that we are on the same page. She wouldn't feel comfortable at our house anyway now knowing how I really feel. I told her I felt like she was mad at me and she said she was hurt because I'm her friend but she respects how I feel. And she doesn't think that Rosie should be at my house anyway. I asked her if Rosie is like that at home, and she said they have their fair share of normal kid stuff. Then I should have just kept my mouth shut but I felt like I had to say that it's not normal kid stuff. That once she told me about Rosie hurting the cats I was honestly a little concerned. That kind of behavior isn't normal for 3yos. She said thanks, rudely. I said obviously you don't feel concerned about it and that I wasn't sure that I was even going to mention it but I am truly worried about her DD. She reiterated that she doesn't want to come to our house and said she wanted to get off the phone.

Super. So I totally alienated her. I don't think it even mattered that I said the stuff about Rosie's behavior, I think the damage was already done when I told we shouldn't get the kids together anymore. What a hard situation. I'm sure my DH is going to be livid with me now, since he is friends with the dad and also his boss. Hopefully those two can let it go as "women trouble" and not let it effect them.
As far as hurting the cats I'm sorry to say but you are wrong. It certainly can be normal 3 yo behavior. Certainly not all 3 yos hurt animals but children under 6 can lack the empathy needed to understand the animal has feelings. They can also grow up and be nice normal people.

There is a huge difference between the 3 yo pulling the cats tail or squeezing the cats paw and and older child doing serious harm/ killing an animal.

From what you said she probably came away with the impression that you think her 3 yo is a budding sociopath! I wouldn't want to be friends with you or have my child at your home either.

Sounds like her parents are lax with discipline and are contributing to the problem.

I don't want you to misunderstand. " Rosie " and her parents would not be welcome in my home anymore but I do think you have blown things way out of proportion at not only your but your dhs expense.

I would think your Dh would have good reason to be mad. It's his working/personal relationship that will now be changed or maybe even ended. This is not "women's trouble" unless you don't think he will be upset you insulted his child!


Wow. Best of luck. Sounds like you situation went from bad to worse.
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Old 02-09-2013, 06:12 PM   #18
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As far as hurting the cats I'm sorry to say but you are wrong. It certainly can be normal 3 yo behavior. Certainly not all 3 yos hurt animals but children under 6 can lack the empathy needed to understand the animal has feelings. They can also grow up and be nice normal people.

There is a huge difference between the 3 yo pulling the cats tail or squeezing the cats paw and and older child doing serious harm/ killing an animal.

From what you said she probably came away with the impression that you think her 3 yo is a budding sociopath! I wouldn't want to be friends with you or have my child at your home either.

Sounds like her parents are lax with discipline and are contributing to the problem.

I don't want you to misunderstand. " Rosie " and her parents would not be welcome in my home anymore but I do think you have blown things way out of proportion at not only your but your dhs expense.

I would think your Dh would have good reason to be mad. It's his working/personal relationship that will now be changed or maybe even ended. This is not "women's trouble" unless you don't think he will be upset you insulted his child!

Wow. Best of luck. Sounds like you situation went from bad to worse.
Wow, thanks for kicking me while I'm down! You're such a sweetie.
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Old 02-09-2013, 06:24 PM   #19
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Re: Defiant little girl...I have to tell my friend that her DD can't play with DS any

This little girl sounds exactly like my son. We are working with a psychologist. He is diagnosed ODD and RAD. This little girl sounds like she has ODD. They need to have her evaluated.

This is the sad but real reason that DS never goes on playdates. I cannot control his behavior and he hurts kids. We saw a therapist at first, but he was a social worker, and couldn't "fix" DS. Now we are with a psychologist. Things are better, but there is no magic pill. The only way you can fix the attention seeking behavior is to ignore it, which is hard when there are other kids involved. Hurting people and breaking things are attention seeking behaviors. Basically, kiddo is going to do anything in his power to get attention, even if it is negative attention. DS throws things, scratches people, hits, tears things up, you name it. For awhile, time out for him was strapped in a carseat in the middle of our living room because he couldn't even stay in time out. At that point, he starts screaming and makes himself throw up because he knows it gets attention. You can punish attention seekers til you are blue in the face and it won't change the behavior. They thrive on the drama. You have to ignore the heck out of the behaviors to extinguish it. But oh my goodness is it hard to do sometimes. The second they do something and you react, it becomes a part of their arsenal. You have to ignore so much stuff with them.

"Parenting the Defiant Child" by Kazdin is a good read. It helps parents to A) realize that sometimes things are beyond your control, and B) how to deal with defiant children. The sooner you start dealing with this stuff, the better. DS started in therapy at 2.5, and was diagnosed full out at 3.5.

Good luck mama!
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Old 02-09-2013, 06:25 PM   #20
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Re: Defiant little girl...I have to tell my friend that her DD can't play with DS any

She may need some time to cool off and think about things for a while. It's hard to hear your child isn't as perfect as you think they are. I know I've gotten my hackles up a bit with my parents when they complain about certain things my kids do. Then I realize they have momnesia.
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