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Old 02-07-2013, 02:09 PM   #31
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Re: An alternative to store bought formula!

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Good to know! I hadn't done a cost comparison...but to be honest i kind of figured it would be harder to sell DH on goat's milk, so this is good!

I spoke to the nurse at my ped's office, she said she knew of some momma's in the practice who make their own, but didn't know the formula...i ended up emailing her the link to the WAPF recipe so she can look it over. At least she wasn't against using raw milk as i thought might be the immediate response.

Yes, you're right about the taste, i did try them too, but i just figured they have a lot more sugar...

Alright, well thank you So Much for all your advice! You've been a tremendous help. Now i've just got to figure out what i'll do.
They do have more sugar but for some reason they just taste so bad! That's great that they have other mamas making their own within the practice. It's not too common, so that's kind of surprising!

and no problem =)

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Old 02-07-2013, 10:28 PM   #32
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Re: An alternative to store bought formula!

Just when i thought i could stop bothering you Veronica, I'm back! Actually this is kind of surprising, you may find it interesting, (short story, i got scared off of raw milk, i can't do it. Already sticking my neck out with our stance on vaccines - i don't think i can handle the responsibility on this one. Unless it's possible to use the recipe and do it w/storebought organic milk??) Anyway, so - i went back to look at the Parent's choice.

When i pulled it up (just typed a google search for the ingredients and i got to this Walmart page):
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Parent-s-C...3.2oz/16932132 I was very surprised to see no whey. So i came back to this thread and found yr link, and it brings me to a completely different ingredient list. I mean Completely! Please check it out. I can't figure it out. Only thing i notice is that yr link, the URL reads ParentschoiceMEDICAL.com
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Old 02-08-2013, 09:01 AM   #33
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Re: An alternative to store bought formula!

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Just when i thought i could stop bothering you Veronica, I'm back! Actually this is kind of surprising, you may find it interesting, (short story, i got scared off of raw milk, i can't do it. Already sticking my neck out with our stance on vaccines - i don't think i can handle the responsibility on this one. Unless it's possible to use the recipe and do it w/storebought organic milk??) Anyway, so - i went back to look at the Parent's choice.

When i pulled it up (just typed a google search for the ingredients and i got to this Walmart page):
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Parent-s-C...3.2oz/16932132 I was very surprised to see no whey. So i came back to this thread and found yr link, and it brings me to a completely different ingredient list. I mean Completely! Please check it out. I can't figure it out. Only thing i notice is that yr link, the URL reads ParentschoiceMEDICAL.com
Wtf?

I have a can of PC left over in my cabinets. The ingredient list reads as the ingredient list in the link I posted. they must have reformulated. I stopped using it when DS was like 6 months old, so about 7 months ago. i find that super weird. I don't think Earth's Best has reformulated, maybe too many people were switching over to PC because they realized it was just a cheap EB, so they changed it??

You could use the recipe with organic pasteurized whole milk, you just need to culture it. If you can find it unhomogenized, that is best, but if all you have access to is organic pasteurized and homogenized whole milk, that is fine too. You can culture it with piima or kefir. With these bacteria, you only need to buy them once, they multiply and you actually will probably end up wanting to give some away lol! kefir grains look kind of like gummies.

You can buy them here http://www.culturesforhealth.com/milk-kefir-grains.html
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Old 02-08-2013, 09:02 AM   #34
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Re: An alternative to store bought formula!

What scared you about raw milk? Just curious
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Old 02-08-2013, 09:38 AM   #35
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Re: An alternative to store bought formula!

Thank you. I'm not sure i understand what culturing will do. Does that introduce good bacteria into the milk that would offset the possibility of any of the bad pathogens taking over and baby getting sick or dying? How does one culture milk with piima or kefir? I'll tell you what finally scared me off. First i started off w/this article which would seek to "embrace" raw milk consumption and debunk much of what the CDC has been saying about it (I do have a healthy skepticisim of any govt agency, Esp the CDC). http://chriskresser.com/raw-milk-rea...milk-dangerous

But as i read through the comments people posted, i read a few things that scared me (too many to find now which ones specifically). Then in the interest of being objective I also looked at what would be the worst case scenario, specifically i looked at accounts of people who actually got sick one way or another, supposedly from raw milk: http://realrawmilkfacts.com/real-life-stories

I know to take everything with a grain of salt, but i really haven't had, or do i have enough time to be able to research this to my satisfaction (it took years of researching on vaccines to convince myself, and ultimately hubby, that we didn't like them, and even that i'm still afraid and sometimes second-guessing myself as to whether or not we are unnecessarily risking the health, and lives, of our little angels.) I don't know if i could compound that risk by having them consume raw milk which may or may not end up killing them. Everyone around me is old-school conservative about such things so i wouldn't have much of a support system in this.

I know long ago i had heard of the purported benefits of raw milk, and how pasteurizing kills a lot of the good bacteria. I also remember my ex-fiance who is originally from Europe, telling me how he missed drinking milk, literally fresh from the cow's udder itself, that the taste was just so much better. But i also read a book (what was it, Fit for Life or something?) that really impacted me when they were talking about humans are not meant to drink cow's milk anyway. This is milk that's meant to take a little calf, and grow her exponentially. So what would it do to us? Not to mention why are so many people lactose-intolerant? (I am, so is hubby) It kind of made sense to me and i believe we weren't Meant to drink milk, milk is for the baby of the species that's producing it. For sure my baby should be drinking my breast milk. If only that had worked i wouldn't be struggling now! ~sigh~ It's too much for me to take on now. Maybe once baby is a little older and her immune system is stronger (age of 2 or so, i'd say) I could consider raw milk for all of us.
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Old 02-08-2013, 10:12 AM   #36
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Re: An alternative to store bought formula!

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Thank you. I'm not sure i understand what culturing will do. Does that introduce good bacteria into the milk that would offset the possibility of any of the bad pathogens taking over and baby getting sick or dying? How does one culture milk with piima or kefir? I'll tell you what finally scared me off. First i started off w/this article which would seek to "embrace" raw milk consumption and debunk much of what the CDC has been saying about it (I do have a healthy skepticisim of any govt agency, Esp the CDC). http://chriskresser.com/raw-milk-rea...milk-dangerous

But as i read through the comments people posted, i read a few things that scared me (too many to find now which ones specifically). Then in the interest of being objective I also looked at what would be the worst case scenario, specifically i looked at accounts of people who actually got sick one way or another, supposedly from raw milk: http://realrawmilkfacts.com/real-life-stories

I know to take everything with a grain of salt, but i really haven't had, or do i have enough time to be able to research this to my satisfaction (it took years of researching on vaccines to convince myself, and ultimately hubby, that we didn't like them, and even that i'm still afraid and sometimes second-guessing myself as to whether or not we are unnecessarily risking the health, and lives, of our little angels.) I don't know if i could compound that risk by having them consume raw milk which may or may not end up killing them. Everyone around me is old-school conservative about such things so i wouldn't have much of a support system in this.

I know long ago i had heard of the purported benefits of raw milk, and how pasteurizing kills a lot of the good bacteria. I also remember my ex-fiance who is originally from Europe, telling me how he missed drinking milk, literally fresh from the cow's udder itself, that the taste was just so much better. But i also read a book (what was it, Fit for Life or something?) that really impacted me when they were talking about humans are not meant to drink cow's milk anyway. This is milk that's meant to take a little calf, and grow her exponentially. So what would it do to us? Not to mention why are so many people lactose-intolerant? (I am, so is hubby) It kind of made sense to me and i believe we weren't Meant to drink milk, milk is for the baby of the species that's producing it. For sure my baby should be drinking my breast milk. If only that had worked i wouldn't be struggling now! ~sigh~ It's too much for me to take on now. Maybe once baby is a little older and her immune system is stronger (age of 2 or so, i'd say) I could consider raw milk for all of us.
The culturing helps create enzymes and adds good bacteria. Good bacteria do help prevent bad bacteria from taking over (if there are any present.) The good bacteria also helps keep the baby's gut healthy. Basically culturing helps make the milk more like raw milk without it actually being raw milk. Culturing is super easy. I haven't done milk kefir, but I do water kefir (delicious, healthy soda replacement.) Basically you just stir the grains into the liquid, covering it, and letting it sit for about 24 hours at room temperature. It's pretty easy, here are instructions: http://www.culturesforhealth.com/milk-kefir

This isn't necessary though, just recommended. Obviously commercial formulas are not made with cultured milk. I would culture it though, cultured milk is very healthy. Also make sure you don't use ultra-pasteurized milk.

The first article about raw milk was very accurate. The issue with raw milk is that you really do need to have a good source. Drinking raw milk from cows that are not pastured at least most of the day, not grass fed, given hormones, etc is downright dangerous. That produces an inferior milk lacking in good bacteria. We don't know anything about the milks the people whose stories are on the second site were drinking or how the milks were stored.

Humans aren't really meant to drink milk, but we have done so for a pretty long time. Also, a lot of people who are lactose intolerant do well on raw milk. It really depends. But in the case of formula, milk is the base except in hypoallergenic formulas which I would not recommend using for a baby that can digest a milk based formula.

If you aren't comfortable with raw milk, then don't use it. I don't really think it's that big of a deal. A homemade formula made with organic, pasteurized whole milk is still awesome, especially if you culture it. I don't think the nutritional differences between raw and pasteurized milk are too big, i think the difference comes with non-organic milk and reduction of fat %.

Maybe try to find a farm that produces organic, pasteurized milk locally? In my area in Florida, we have a farm called Dakin where the cows are grass fed and mostly pastured. the milk is pasteurized but not homogenized and it's actually really tasty. That farm sells their milk to Whole Foods stores in our area.
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Old 02-08-2013, 04:06 PM   #37
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Re: An alternative to store bought formula!

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Originally Posted by JustSomeChickVee View Post
The culturing helps create enzymes and adds good bacteria. Good bacteria do help prevent bad bacteria from taking over (if there are any present.) The good bacteria also helps keep the baby's gut healthy. Basically culturing helps make the milk more like raw milk without it actually being raw milk. Culturing is super easy. I haven't done milk kefir, but I do water kefir (delicious, healthy soda replacement.) Basically you just stir the grains into the liquid, covering it, and letting it sit for about 24 hours at room temperature. It's pretty easy, here are instructions: http://www.culturesforhealth.com/milk-kefir

This isn't necessary though, just recommended. Obviously commercial formulas are not made with cultured milk. I would culture it though, cultured milk is very healthy. Also make sure you don't use ultra-pasteurized milk.

The first article about raw milk was very accurate. The issue with raw milk is that you really do need to have a good source. Drinking raw milk from cows that are not pastured at least most of the day, not grass fed, given hormones, etc is downright dangerous. That produces an inferior milk lacking in good bacteria. We don't know anything about the milks the people whose stories are on the second site were drinking or how the milks were stored.

Humans aren't really meant to drink milk, but we have done so for a pretty long time. Also, a lot of people who are lactose intolerant do well on raw milk. It really depends. But in the case of formula, milk is the base except in hypoallergenic formulas which I would not recommend using for a baby that can digest a milk based formula.

If you aren't comfortable with raw milk, then don't use it. I don't really think it's that big of a deal. A homemade formula made with organic, pasteurized whole milk is still awesome, especially if you culture it. I don't think the nutritional differences between raw and pasteurized milk are too big, i think the difference comes with non-organic milk and reduction of fat %.

Maybe try to find a farm that produces organic, pasteurized milk locally? In my area in Florida, we have a farm called Dakin where the cows are grass fed and mostly pastured. the milk is pasteurized but not homogenized and it's actually really tasty. That farm sells their milk to Whole Foods stores in our area.
I agree with all of this. Finding safe raw milk is important, and like everything in life, there is a risk. But I would rather take the risk with ingredients that I sourced myself and mixed vs. putting the responsibiliy into the hands of a corporation that really mainly cares about making money, and doesn't treat the ingredients in the same way that I would.
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Old 02-10-2013, 10:50 AM   #38
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Re: An alternative to store bought formula!

Thank you Songbird. Veronica, you mention trying to use non-homogenized...what would be the reason for this preference? Is it the fat content? Makes it better? Tastes better? I am seriously going to look into this. And i may revisit the goat's milk again, based on what i've been reading of late. Would you believe someone in my other group (Yahoo) mentioned relactation as a possibility -- I NEVER HEARD OF THIS!! I was so shocked, and at the same time, pretty saddened that i didn't come across it sooner, because i think 5 months out is just too late, but had i known, i could very well have tried again after the 1st month when my breasts were pretty much back to normal.
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Old 02-10-2013, 08:25 PM   #39
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Re: An alternative to store bought formula!

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Thank you Songbird. Veronica, you mention trying to use non-homogenized...what would be the reason for this preference? Is it the fat content? Makes it better? Tastes better? I am seriously going to look into this. And i may revisit the goat's milk again, based on what i've been reading of late. Would you believe someone in my other group (Yahoo) mentioned relactation as a possibility -- I NEVER HEARD OF THIS!! I was so shocked, and at the same time, pretty saddened that i didn't come across it sooner, because i think 5 months out is just too late, but had i known, i could very well have tried again after the 1st month when my breasts were pretty much back to normal.
I believe homogenization does alter the milk. at minimum, non-homogenized milk tastes better.

Yes, relactation is possible. I lost my milk supply at 4 months and attempted relactation twice. I was not successful, and it simply wasn't realistic for me to pump like i would with a newborn (at least 20 minutes every 2 hours) when I had a mobile infant. It's been done though.
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Old 02-11-2013, 08:26 AM   #40
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Re: An alternative to store bought formula!

Exactly, i have a toddler that requires attention as well, this sounds Very time consuming...no matter how much I wish i could do it, just not feasible for us either.

I'm happy to say I did find a couple of places where i can find just pasteurized, non-homogenized, grass fed milk (1 being Natural by Nature, and the other one that Whole Foods has, Skytop Farms). And I cd order the kit from Radiant Life, and i already watched the video about making milk kefir...seems simple enough. I guess i just have to try and start making formula and just get into the swing of it and the timing. For example, with making the kefir - looks like i could just make a new batch overnight every time...? I also still have to figure out where to buy cream (Do you know what cream they are referring to in the WAPF recipe - i mean is it the same as Heavy Cream or Light cream that supermkts sell?) and the whey. I know that when you make the kefir if you leave it too long then it turns into curds and whey...but if i let it get to that point for the whey, then i don't have my kefir to culture the milk with. Actually that's something i need to ask you --just how much of the kefir do i put into the milk to culture it? Seems like you've been doing this a while, i guess you have it down pat now! I really appreciate your help with this...starting to feel much better for my little one already
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