Dads rights: naming, circing, etc?

[Mom2Connor]

That's the point though. You can't have equal say. Someone must have slightly more or what happens when they can't agree? I can not believe this has never happened anywhere....

You can't half way circ or have two first names on the BC YK?!

[ulawolf]

Actually from what I understand if you are legally married to the father the moment the child is born he is just as legally responsible and has equal rights. In Michigan that includes if the child isn't biologically his. This came up during my divorce. I found out I was pregnant two weeks before my final divorce hearing (years in the process) and my lawyer told me not to tell the court. My ex would have legal claim and responsibility to that baby because it was conceived while still married. I'm not sure how it worked I just know that the lawyer said it was a big deal.

[luvsviola]

Originally Posted by ulawolf Actually from what I understand if you are legally married to the father the moment the child is born he is just as legally responsible and has equal rights. In Michigan that includes if the child isn't biologically his. This came up during my divorce. I found out I was pregnant two weeks before my final divorce hearing (years in the process) and my lawyer told me not to tell the court. My ex would have legal claim and responsibility to that baby because it was conceived while still married. I'm not sure how it worked I just know that the lawyer said it was a big deal.

This is Indiana too.

[Mom2Connor]

Still not understanding how parents can equally decide opposite things. You either circ or you don't. So I guess whoever gets the kid alone first can make that decision and the other parent can't contest it for any reason?

And whoever gets to fill out the BC paperwork first wins, but the other parent can legally change it, then the other change it back until someone gives up?

[happysmileylady]

That's how I understand it too. The only reason that there's a discrepancy regarding father allowed in the room at birth, abortions and other issues surrounding the pregnancy is because the pregnant person is the patient, not the child she is pregnant with.

[happysmileylady]

Originally Posted by Mom2Connor Still not understanding how parents can equally decide opposite things. You either circ or you don't. So I guess whoever gets the kid alone first can make that decision and the other parent can't contest it for any reason? And whoever gets to fill out the BC paperwork first wins, but the other parent can legally change it, then the other change it back until someone gives up?

I think that is actually pretty much exactly how it works.

And I think that really, it has to. To carry it a bit further, imagine if you had to have both parents present for every doc appointment and dentist appointment. What kind of nightmare would that be, with both parents having to be available every single time.

[MyLovely]

Isn't that why we're discussing it on both a philosophical and legal level though? Morally speaking, both parents should have equal say. With things like circumcision and vaccination, yes, ultimately one parent "gives in." However, usually their change in opinion is either the result of their own education, or deferral to their spouse who is more knowledgeable. In terms of names, compromise is definitely possible. If you hate the name DH likes and he hates the name you like, you find a new name you can both agree upon.

However, legally, the immediate rights should remain with the mother unless there is reason to believe she isn't a competent caregiver, or unless she is manipulative/unstable. In terms of long-term issues, I can't see it being a problem unless one parent is unhinged. For example, either parent should be able to consent to emergency procedures. If a mother is attempting to refuse cancer treatment/emergency surgery/blood transfusion and the father is attempting to consent, his consent should take precedence. In terms of anything else less emergent, I would think both parents consent should be expected.

[BigSamsMom]

I took DH's last name, and dropped my middle name for my maiden name.... I have done this will all three of my marriages.

As per naming our children, we come to an agreement on the name.

As per circing, I let DH make the decision. DS1 is circed, and I talked him out of circing DS2, so he is intact.

Legally, and I do have my J.D. (but family law is not my specialty), it would lean towards being the mother's decision, especially in cases where the father is not playing an "active" role, the couple is unmarried/separated, etc. Sorry, but I can't find much case law on happily married couples taking each other to court over circing/naming rights.

[Mom2Connor]

Originally Posted by MyLovely Isn't that why we're discussing it on both a philosophical and legal level though? Morally speaking, both parents should have equal say. With things like circumcision and vaccination, yes, ultimately one parent "gives in." However, usually their change in opinion is either the result of their own education, or deferral to their spouse who is more knowledgeable. In terms of names, compromise is definitely possible. If you hate the name DH likes and he hates the name you like, you find a new name you can both agree upon. However, legally, the immediate rights should remain with the mother unless there is reason to believe she isn't a competent caregiver, or unless she is manipulative/unstable. In terms of long-term issues, I can't see it being a problem unless one parent is unhinged. For example, either parent should be able to consent to emergency procedures. If a mother is attempting to refuse cancer treatment/emergency surgery/blood transfusion and the father is attempting to consent, his consent should take precedence. In terms of anything else less emergent, I would think both parents consent should be expected.

Personally speaking, I was only wondering about the legal side of it. I think most of society would agree that education on circing should make the decision, and a name that both like should be sought out. I certainly don't mind people talking about the moral side of it.

[Mom2Connor]

Originally Posted by BigSamsMom I took DH's last name, and dropped my middle name for my maiden name.... I have done this will all three of my marriages. As per naming our children, we come to an agreement on the name. As per circing, I let DH make the decision. DS1 is circed, and I talked him out of circing DS2, so he is intact. Legally, and I do have my J.D. (but family law is not my specialty), it would lean towards being the mother's decision, especially in cases where the father is not playing an "active" role, the couple is unmarried/separated, etc. Sorry, but I can't find much case law on happily married couples taking each other to court over circing/naming rights.

I guess I was more thinking married but unhappily lol. Certainly if it's being fought out in court there are serious issues.