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Old 06-18-2010, 12:08 PM   #11
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Re: Custody/Visitation questions VERY LONG (SORRY)

I would definitely get a lawyer and explain everything that's going on. It definitely sounds like the kids are not in a healthy environment when they are with her and that the original visitation agreement needs to be reviewed.

It's entirely possible she's blowing smoke because she's upset and wants to stir up trouble, but it also sounds like their father has a case for getting the order changed. Given the situation, I'm assuming you have documentation of the dates she kept visitation, hopefully you can get the order modified.

As for the other questions, they really vary by state and district so an attorney could help you get answers better.

ETA: If you withhold visitation, you (your H) will look bad. I would also be asking the lawyer what his responsibility is for the summer, 3 or 6 weeks (since the first 3 have already passed).

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Old 06-18-2010, 12:10 PM   #12
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Re: Custody/Visitation questions VERY LONG (SORRY)

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Thank you... this was helpful! I have suggested to DH that we be the ones to file something but he is such a easy going passive guy and "feels bad" even though he knows he is doing the right thing. Not to mention the 14 year old is dealing with A LOT concerning all of this and she still talks to her mom quite frequently (she has her own phone and she and her mom talk, the mom just doesn't talk to the trips)and tends to believe every single white lie, excuse, etc that she hands her. Naomi actually did accept his decision to not let them go pretty well though and says she understands where he is coming from but she keeps saying "but she's my mom, I just want to see her!" She knows that the responsibility her mom put on her was wrong and that the lifestyle her mom is living is unhealthy and not a good environment for her and the triplets to be in, but at the same time she tries to defend her and she has also leaned to the side of believing her mom when she tells her stuff like "I only made you do so much before because your dad made me so stressed that I couldn't function and I had to get away" and "Now things are different because I am happier, when you come here you'll see" etc.

If she does beat us to the punch on filing something... are our chances of getting anything changed going to hindered?
In your friend's case did he file or did she?
Yeah, it is always tough dealing with that. I don't have much experience or advice, but I think just keep doing what you are doing. Let them talk, always talk nicely about her mom to her, try not to make her feel like she has to pick sides. I think you are already doing those things. Perhaps another poster has more help on that issue, because it can be so difficult!

As for filing first, I don't think you are going to be hindered by not filing first. I just meant that if you feel like you can't in good conscience continue with the order as stated, then you should probably file sooner than later so you don't have to knowingly go against the order. With my friend, his ex-wife was the one who filed for a change to the custody order when she decided she wanted her son. My friend had to scrape up money for a lawyer, but when he went to court the judge didn't grant the ex what she wanted. My friend's custody of his son was upheld even though he didn't file for a change.
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Old 06-18-2010, 12:23 PM   #13
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Re: Custody/Visitation questions VERY LONG (SORRY)

custody stuff sucks. i have to also reiterate that you need to document EVERYTHING. Keep a notebook by the phone for you and your husband to write down things said during conversations(dates AND times and phone records if you can access them), keep voice mails and answering machine messages(they ARE admissable in court as she knows she's being recorded), and get thyself to a lawyer ASAP. Even if you need to do legal aid, you need someone. This could get nasty once you file. But you definitely need to be the ones to file first before you refuse to allow visitation because it needs to be documented that your intentions are good on following the original order but you have serious reservations(which are also backed up and proven by your documentation of her flakiness and threats) about the safety of the 4 children in question. A lawyer should be able to advise you better but I find it hard to imagine a judge taking custody away when the absent parent has not exercised visitation for an extended period of time and the custodial parent is filing a motion with the court BEFORE not allowing visitation. It shows good intention on your part.
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Old 06-18-2010, 12:32 PM   #14
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Re: Custody/Visitation questions VERY LONG (SORRY)

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Yeah, it is always tough dealing with that. I don't have much experience or advice, but I think just keep doing what you are doing. Let them talk, always talk nicely about her mom to her, try not to make her feel like she has to pick sides. I think you are already doing those things. .
i want to second this. My oldest daughter is 10 and she's never heard a bad word uttered about her biological father. He skipped out on us, was sporadically visiting during first 21 months of her life. He stopped visiting at 21 months and has not seen her since even though I've informed him of every single move during the last 8+ years of his absence. He's never once called to talk to her on the phone and lives 2 hours away. He chose this. And I have NEVER once badmouthed him in front of her because as much as I dislike it, he is her biological father. She has a daddy she loves very very much who has raised her for the last 6 years of her life but she will always have a biological connection to this man. And someday I knkow she'll want to explore that. At that point she can make up her mind about him one way or the other. I won't influence her one way or the other, she needs to find out for herself what kind of a person he is. And telling her bad things about him is not the way to keep her love and affection and trust. She simply knows that she's very very lucky because most kids only have one dad but she's got two(her younger sister actually pouts that she only has one dad and not two like Mady). She knows that he lives in X state with his family and she lives in Y state with her family. That's it. Being a neutral party that is ready to listen and not judge is the only way to deal with this situation. This is some heavy stuff she's dealing with on top of teenage hormones and she needs to work through it in her own time Just be there. That's all you can do.
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Old 06-18-2010, 12:58 PM   #15
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Re: Custody/Visitation questions VERY LONG (SORRY)

I second the person that said YOU should file against HER first! If she files, then you will have to go to the court hearings and such in HER state and in HER county. If YOU file, they will be done in your state and your county.
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Old 06-18-2010, 02:23 PM   #16
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Re: Custody/Visitation questions VERY LONG (SORRY)

I would talk to a lawyer.

If the 3 weeks at the beginning of summer/3 weeks at the end based on the school year or does it just say "summer". What qualifies as summer in the papers? Does it say the beginning is the first 3 weeks or is it more vague?

If I read right, this guy she's currently living with(with a 16yo son) is the 3rd guy she's lived with in 8months? If she was living alone I'd say send the 14yo & keep the trips, perhaps split up their visits so she can't put all the child rearing on the 14yo.
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Old 06-18-2010, 03:42 PM   #17
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Re: Custody/Visitation questions VERY LONG (SORRY)

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I would talk to a lawyer.

If the 3 weeks at the beginning of summer/3 weeks at the end based on the school year or does it just say "summer". What qualifies as summer in the papers? Does it say the beginning is the first 3 weeks or is it more vague?

If I read right, this guy she's currently living with(with a 16yo son) is the 3rd guy she's lived with in 8months? If she was living alone I'd say send the 14yo & keep the trips, perhaps split up their visits so she can't put all the child rearing on the 14yo.
First of all thank all of you ladies for your advice. I called him at work and shared this thread with him and he is calling his lawyer right now

As for how the decree reads.... it is pretty vague and does not really specify what constitutes "summer" but it DOES say that visitation cannot interfere with Schooling and Naomi will be going to a Private Christian School this year that starts the first week of August.
This is the 2nd guy she has lived with in 8 months (not third, sorry if any confusion there). Part of me says it would be great to split up their visits so she couldn't pawn the triplets off on Nay, but the other part of me knows that She would supervise Nay even less if the little ones weren't there and I fear the trouble an unsupervised 14 year old girl in a strange town would get herself into.
I am hoping we will get a court date SOON and get everything modified so that this won't be worrying us anymore. I hate 'keeping' them from a parent, but I KNOW it is not in their best interest/healthy for them to be with her. Les offered to let her stay in our RV in our yard if she wanted to come here and visit but she refused. I feel bad mostly for Naomi because she is the one with such a bond with her mom... the triplets don't ask for her and rarely mention her and have pretty much accepted me in the "mom" roll. Poor Naomi is so torn over it all though and her mom's manipulation just adds to the heartache and frustration!
Thank you all again and hopefully I will have an update with a court date soon. It is amazing that telling DH that several women on a diaper board thought we should be the ones to initiate court got him moving, but me trying to get him to do it last month he kept putting it off saying "I will" or "but I just feel so bad even though I know I need to!"
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Old 06-21-2010, 08:02 AM   #18
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Re: Custody/Visitation questions VERY LONG (SORRY)

Well, he spoke with our lawyer and he said he did not believe a "preemptive strike" was neccessary. Les pulled the decree back out and read it line for line and it actually says "first 3 weeks of june and first 3 weeks of August" and in another part it says that visitation cannot interfere with schooling. The triplets will be home schooled by me this year and I guess a judge could say they should go and I could just start school at the end of August with them, but Naomi is going to a private school that starts early in August so she wouldn't be able to.... and she DOES NOT want the triplets by herself... she wants Naomi be there to watch them while she works and when she gets home to 'play her game.'
The lawyer said that she already missed out on the first 3 weeks of june part and if she filed something now she would only look like an idiot to the judge when he realized she was not supposed to have them at the time she was filing for anyway.
Also... she emailed Les yesterday saying she did not want to go to court and wanted to know what she had to do to see the kids. He told her she was welcome at any time to come here to see them, but that he did not feel safe in sending them there. She has not replied to him.... but she did tell Naomi on the phone that she didn't want to go to court because her lawyer told her that the judge would most likely make her begin paying child support. That part made me mad... I can't believe she still wants the right to randomly and sporadically bounce in and out of their lives and cause chaos but does not want to put one red cent toward their support.
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Old 06-21-2010, 09:04 AM   #19
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Re: Custody/Visitation questions VERY LONG (SORRY)

yuo can take it back to court and request an early court date to get this all sorted out before that 3 weeks gets here. but honistly that mom is gonna lie and say that she spent quality time with them ( i know this b/c thats wht my ex did) and they will believe her, unless you have proof.
they will not talk to the kids.( at least not here in california) sorry you are going through this

I'm glad to see that she doesn't want to go back to court, that is a very good thing for everyone. court sucks!
this mom sounds alot like my ex. haha never there just sporatically seeing their kid(s) and then all of the sudden wanting to "be in their life" ya right...
grr

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Old 06-21-2010, 10:04 AM   #20
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Re: Custody/Visitation questions VERY LONG (SORRY)

what a messed up situation. i'm glad at least the lawyer is up to date on the current happenings and he doesn't feel you are doing any wrong or going to put yourself in legal jeopardy with the schooling situation vs visitation with the other mom. you are doing a great job being mom to them and handling all the children plus stressful custody issues. i give you big props!
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