Please help me keep going... update post #54

[Sarah-B]

How is it going OP?

[birdinhand]

Originally Posted by mariannec32 I am so sorry you are going through this. I have been where you are with my Ds1 and it was the hardest thing I've ever fought through. Have you heard of Jack Newman's APNO (All purpose nipple ointment?) This stuff ROCKS! I've used lanolin, motherlove and breastmilk, and NOTHING has helped heal like this stuff. I am currently nursing my 7 day old Ds2 who just like Ds1, has a terrible latch. My nipples were getting shredded up and after two days of using APNO I am almost fully healed. His latch is still bad and we are working on it everyday but this ointment has literally saved my sanity. I wish I knew about it with Ds1. Anyway, you can google it and get a prescription from your Dr to have it made at a compounding pharmacy. I however found a homemade recipe using over the counter products. If you go with homemade, it is equal parts Hyrdocortisone 1%, Lotrimin and Polysporin. Sounds crazy for a nipple cream but please give it a try. I can't believe what a difference it has made!

Yes, this! I was wondering if you tried the APNO yet? It has a few different ingredient in it to cover fungal infection, bacterial infection, and to help with general healing -- it is a wonder. If you can't find someone to rx it for you, there are ways to make it yourself.

Sounds like you got the lot of issues with this baby, and you have gotten a lot of help with the tongue-ties, etc. I am surprised your LC didn't see any of that sooner, but unfortunately many are not trained to see a tongue-tie unless it is blatantly obvious, and PTT are hard to see unless you know what you are looking for.

Hope you are on your way to mending reglardless of how your baby is being fed <3.

[mariannec32]

Also wondering if you have any updates...

My new baby was diagnosed today with a posterior tie so we are going next week to have it released. Crossing my fingers it helps because nursing can be just miserable.

[evasimone]

Hi everyone! Things have pretty much regulated themselves and I took a little hiatus from the breastfeeding boards.

For an update. I am still nursing her and weaning myself off of pumping. As of today I've only pumped twice and nursed the rest of the time. My DD has started sleeping a six hour stretch at night so I'll still have to pump at least once. I am using a nipple shield with a small piece of sterile gauze in the tip (I am unfortunately one of the unlucky few women whose LO's are able to pull their nipple through the little holes at the end of the shield. Yowch!). Despite the pulling through the nipple shield has been a blessing, I've been able to find more comfortable positions that I couldn't use before. Right now we are mainly doing laid back nursing and I pink sparkly heart it. Especially compared to all of the cramped up, straight backed positions I'd been using.

Unfortunately I did get mastitis on Sunday and ended up with a sore boob and a 101 degree fever, I am on antibiotics and hoping that the thrush doesn't return.

I also hired a different LC and she came and worked with me for two hours. We latched DD at least fifty times and every latch was bad. The LC showed me some exercises to encourage DD to use her tongue correctly because DD is only moving the tip and not the back of her tongue. She also suggested a speech pathologist and threw out terms like 'oral motor dysfunction'. The LC also agreed that I should continue with the nipple shield.

Personally I'll continue to work with DD but I am not going to do a speech pathologist (she's not even 7 weeks!) or have her labeled as oral motor dysfunction. She does well on the nipple shield, it's working for us currently and I'll just take it day by day.

Originally Posted by mariannec32 I am so sorry you are going through this. I have been where you are with my Ds1 and it was the hardest thing I've ever fought through. Have you heard of Jack Newman's APNO (All purpose nipple ointment?) This stuff ROCKS! I've used lanolin, motherlove and breastmilk, and NOTHING has helped heal like this stuff. I am currently nursing my 7 day old Ds2 who just like Ds1, has a terrible latch. My nipples were getting shredded up and after two days of using APNO I am almost fully healed. His latch is still bad and we are working on it everyday but this ointment has literally saved my sanity. I wish I knew about it with Ds1. Anyway, you can google it and get a prescription from your Dr to have it made at a compounding pharmacy. I however found a homemade recipe using over the counter products. If you go with homemade, it is equal parts Hyrdocortisone 1%, Lotrimin and Polysporin. Sounds crazy for a nipple cream but please give it a try. I can't believe what a difference it has made!

Thanks for this. I am healed now but I'll keep it in mind if I start getting damaged again or the thrush comes back. I also appreciate the homemade recipe.

Originally Posted by rcima I had the same issue. I broke the rules, too, and primarily pumped for 3 weeks until I healed. When I did nurse during those 3 weeks and for a while afterward, I would use a nipple shield to provide some protection to my nipples. DD was weaned from the nipple shield by 3 months and is still nursing at 26 months. Hang in there, you can do this!

Good to hear you got off the nipple shield and you went on to have a good nursing relationship despite the rocky start. I am hoping for the same.

Originally Posted by Sarah-B How is it going OP?

Thanks for thinking of me!

Originally Posted by birdinhand Yes, this! I was wondering if you tried the APNO yet? It has a few different ingredient in it to cover fungal infection, bacterial infection, and to help with general healing -- it is a wonder. If you can't find someone to rx it for you, there are ways to make it yourself. Sounds like you got the lot of issues with this baby, and you have gotten a lot of help with the tongue-ties, etc. I am surprised your LC didn't see any of that sooner, but unfortunately many are not trained to see a tongue-tie unless it is blatantly obvious, and PTT are hard to see unless you know what you are looking for. Hope you are on your way to mending reglardless of how your baby is being fed <3.

I am over the thrush, I think I caught it in the first few days and it seems to be gone and my nipples are healed now from the damage. They look weird and are still missing pieces but they aren't raw anymore thank god. I'll definitely try the APNO if the thrush comes back, or maybe I should try it anyways to keep the thrush away? I am curious if the APNO should be used sparingly so that you don't develop a resistance? Or if you could just use it whenever.

Well the LC, my midwife and a pediatric dentist missed the PTT so I don't blame the first two too much. The pediatric dentist should be ashamed IMO. I basically had to take her to a specialist before anyone noticed it.

Originally Posted by mariannec32 Also wondering if you have any updates... My new baby was diagnosed today with a posterior tie so we are going next week to have it released. Crossing my fingers it helps because nursing can be just miserable.

I am sorry you are struggling with nursing your LO. I hope it helps to have it clipped. I haven't noticed much change unfortunately but she didn't have it clipped until she was older and she'd been using bottles for a few weeks. So I am hoping that with time and patience her latch will improve.

[birdinhand]

Good update! The thing about the APNO is, it doesn't only help with thrush. What we know about women dealing with major nipple trauma and pain is, even when it's "thrush," there are usually more compnants involved in that, and often there is is also a bacterial issue going on. I apologize for not noticing marianne32 included the recipe (I was at a conference where Dr. Hale shared this recipe, lol). So, the hydrocortisone helps aid healing of the damaged tissue, the lotriman helps with the yeast, and the polysporin helps with any bacterial infection, so it may not be a bad idea to make some up and use it. I have not heard of it causing a problem with resistance, etc.

I know labels are hard to hear -- I have a son with an aortic stenosis, and although it is technically a heart defect, I cannot bring myself to use that term; I always say he has a heart issue. Try not to get caught up in the labes the LC might be using -- she is using technical, scientific terms. My friend said this the other day, and I keep saying it myself, "Science is not a personal attack," lol. That's what I have to remember when I hear a lot othings, like heart defect, advanced maternal age (heavens, that used to be geriatric pregnancy!), etc. It would be something to consider if her latch continues to be an issue .

[songbird516]

I'm glad to see your update! You're doing such a good job!! I also love biological nursing; I'm glad to hear that it's been helpful.

[Sarah-B]

Originally Posted by songbird516 I'm glad to see your update! You're doing such a good job!! I also love biological nursing; I'm glad to hear that it's been helpful.

What do you mean when you say biological nursing?

Op glad you and baby are doing better!!

[birdinhand]

We used to think babies were dorsal feeders, that they needed to be on their backs to breastfeed. We have since learned they are tummy feeders, and when they are on their tummies there are about 20 reflex responses that help a baby get to the breast, latch to the breast, and/or transfer milk from the breast.

Biological nursing, biological nurturing, and laid-back breastfeeding are some of the terms we have given this more mammalian way of feeding our babies.

http://www.biologicalnurturing.com/
http://www.normalfed.com/Why/mammal.html
http://www.llli.org/docs/00000000000...astfeeding.pdf

[evasimone]

Update:
DD was gaining weight well, at one point 5 oz. in 5 days while using the nipple shield. 2 weeks ago at our breastfeeding group she was 9 lbs 2 oz. And 14 days later is only 9 lbs 1 oz. I weighed her pre and post feeding and she took in 2.5 oz. With the nipple shield. The pediatrician told me she was only 10th percentile prior to this newest set back (born at 25th) and now I suspect she isn't even on the chart.

I am doing everything "right" we nurse on demand all day long and I don't limit feedings. I believe I have a good supply. I'll hear DD gulping and sputtering. And I get engorged and leak after only 3 hours. DD does sleep 7.5 hours at night (she does that naturally, I haven't done any "sleep training"). She still manages to nurse 10-12 times a day even with sttn.

I am fairly certain its a milk removal problem on DD's part. even before I weighed her I sensed that she wasn't getting enough milk. I could tell her feeding had changed instead of vigorous sucks she is doing more flutter sucking. And she acts frustrated, pulling, hitting and scratching while feeding. I can't figure out what has made DD change her pattern.

She will feed without the shield but her latch is still bad. I get breakdown and pain with pretty much any latch.

I am so frustrated.

[l_Kimmie_l]

Are you still using the shield? Maybe she still needs it to get a proper latch and enough milk.