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Old 01-29-2013, 03:46 PM   #1
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Anyone torn between vegan or vegetarian and paleo?

Not to mention the other mindsets out there as to what is truly "healthiest" (Weston A. Price, raw foodist, GAPS, etc.) I'm not one or the other, I do think all have some great points though... and it makes it a bit confusing figuring out what is the best thing to eat and feed our little ones.

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Old 01-29-2013, 04:40 PM   #2
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Re: Anyone torn between vegan or vegetarian and paleo?

Well paleo is def a drastic difference than the other two. I have at some point in my life done all of the above. I have to admit I felt the best doing paleo, but I think its easier to fall off the wagon than the others since so many things are restricted.
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Old 01-30-2013, 08:47 AM   #3
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Re: Anyone torn between vegan or vegetarian and paleo?

Yeah, they are definitely super different in obvious ways, which is why it is so confusing to me, because I think they both have very valid points. I'm torn between disgusted by animals are treated and am not a fan of most meat in the first place, and being convinced that grains aren't so great. But if you don't eat meat, you tend to eat the things that paleo says are bad (grains and legumes.) And I don't think the fruitarian or raw vegan lifestyles are necessarily so healthy for children or really believe in using supplements that aren't natural if they can be avoided, or too many supplements... (I'm not saying vegan isn't healthy: I'm just not convinced it's the best or right for everyone. I think that quality meats, raw yogurts, eggs and such can be very healthy. I'm open to considering that that isn't totally true. But so far I'm not 100% sure, and am torn between feeling compassion for the animals and wanting to do what's healthiest.) Ahhhh so confusing...

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Old 01-30-2013, 02:20 PM   #4
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Re: Anyone torn between vegan or vegetarian and paleo?

If you buy humanely raised and slaughtered meats would that make it ok for you?

Personally I eat paleo, and dont think a vegan or veg diet is very healthy, especially with alotof refined grain product (like my cousin who is veg and has survived the last decade on white pasta, white bread, soy substitues, and very little vegitables).
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Old 01-30-2013, 03:49 PM   #5
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Re: Anyone torn between vegan or vegetarian and paleo?

im currently finishing up my first whole30 which is, essentially, a very refined form of paleo dieting. i have been veg and vegan in the past and do feel a lot of what you do in regards to meat and animal welfare...

that said, i feel GREAT doing this diet! i cant even believe it, really. what i'm trying to do is have one vegetarian meal per day so i dont burn out on eating meat. if you buy pastured meat and eggs, you can at least be sure that the animal wasn't factory farmed, etc. yes, you will be paying more money for your animal goods, but you'll be saving on dairy, sugar, etc. also, we prepare our meals about 95% more often than we used to, so i know a lot of savings are coming from there.
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Old 01-30-2013, 09:50 PM   #6
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Re: Anyone torn between vegan or vegetarian and paleo?

This is so interesting, Mel you know I'm torn on the whole thing too! I love hearing other people's opinions.

I think the one I'm stuck on most is dairy. I'm ok not eating grains and sugar (much. ) and I think animal fats are healthy, I do try to only eat organic, but that doesn't always happen.

But dairy? I think raw is healthiest, but is dairy necessary? I think DD is sensitive to it in medium to large quantities so we've toyed with removing it completely a few times. Butter, keifer, everything... but? Those things can be healthy, too, I think? I don't know. Is she missing essential "kid body growing nutrients" by not eating dairy? (Weston A Price would probably say so! )
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Old 01-31-2013, 08:15 AM   #7
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Re: Anyone torn between vegan or vegetarian and paleo?

Thanks for your thoughts!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BNC View Post
If you buy humanely raised and slaughtered meats would that make it ok for you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by beckstar View Post
if you buy pastured meat and eggs, you can at least be sure that the animal wasn't factory farmed, etc. yes, you will be paying more money for your animal goods, but you'll be saving on dairy, sugar, etc. also, we prepare our meals about 95% more often than we used to, so i know a lot of savings are coming from there.
Already moved in that direction, actually! In exchange for the junk things I used to be tempted by and think were perfectly fine to be eating from time to time (chips, chocolate chips, ice cream etc.) and dropping virtually all processed foods, I figured it was worth it to spend a few extra $ for quality fruits and veggies; our cart is usually at least 80% veggies & fruits. As time went on and I did more research, I figured it was worth it to spend a bit extra for better quality eggs in exchange for consuming less eggs... still trying to find the best source though. I also stopped eating regular store beef recently, but not chicken completely yet... I'm torn over it. Dairy I'm not completely sure either, but what I am definitely convinced of is that we certainly don't need hundreds of non-organic dairy products like ice cream and mass produced meats with tons of chemicals lining our grocery stores - being a nursing mom that is one of the things that does make me sad and pull me in the direction of not wanting to eat it - they are forced to produce tons more milk than they should have to and ice cream is one of those store products that is sooo easy for many people to overindulge on too (same with cheese.) I used to think how else are people going to feed everyone, but I know now that that's not true since it's obvious to me now that we don't even need a lot of the products that are in our stores and they often make people sick without the people who are consuming them realizing it.

Now that I'm writing all this out I'm thinking that maybe both camps are probably right, there are unhealthy things about eating even organic meats & dairy, but there are unhealthy things about eating grains & legumes, but there can be very healthy things about both of them too. I'm definitely convinced we don't need pasteurized dairy or as much meat as our culture thinks we need etc. but are we missing out by not eating raw dairy by cows who are truly well treated or bone broths from animals who were allowed to live out their lives in healthy ways and then treated humanely instead of letting them suffer etc. when it was time for them to die anyway... I don't know.

Last edited by mel j; 01-31-2013 at 08:22 AM. Reason: spelling & grammar
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Old 01-31-2013, 10:38 PM   #8
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Re: Anyone torn between vegan or vegetarian and paleo?

Just a heads up, if you're doing paleo because you think it's how we evolved to eat, it's not. Hominids ate very differently in different regions of the world, depending on their resources. Grains have always been a part of our diet. Meat was not the bulk of the diet, and protein sources consisted of wild game, small critters and insects. Not to mention, just because our ancestors did something doesn't mean it's instantly good. There was a LOT of malnutrition. Yes, we've had a ton of problems with issues like obesity since industrialization, but that doesn't mean we should necessarily jump to an extreme. Whole, unrefined grains have always been a part of our diet and studies show that in moderation, they are healthy. Here is an excellent article discussing evolutionary nutrition.

Anyhow, I'm a vegetarian and I'm about to start a 4-6 week vegan stint tomorrow with the hope of remaining primarily vegan (but always vegetarian) afterwards. Meat farmed from "humane" farms still doesn't sit right for me, but it's an easy choice. My blood pressure is excellent, my cholesterol is good, my acne has disappeared, I sleep better, I have more energy and most of all, I just feel light, and clear-headed. I think it's an excellent diet for those who do it right (which isn't hard at all).

Also, I'm not a judgey vegetarian. I honestly don't care what people eat. If someone wants to do what is deemed "paleo", great. It'll make them lose weight or maintain easily because it's a high protein/low carb diet. However, over time, I wouldn't be surprised if it runs into the same problems Atkins did. My issue with it, as someone with a degree in evolutionary health, is that this diet is not what our ancestors (any of them) ate, and that the mere act of our ancestors doing it doesn't make it inherently good.
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Old 02-01-2013, 06:45 AM   #9
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Re: Anyone torn between vegan or vegetarian and paleo?

Thanks, MyLovely. I'm glad to hear from a vegetarian, too. I'm definitely not convinced by the whole "this is what our ancestors ate" thing at all. I don't believe it anyway, since I very strongly believe the Bible, and many people in the Bible relied on grains so I don't see them as an inherently bad thing, and God also created animals and said it was ok to eat them so I don't believe it's wrong to eat animals either...but I don't think the way most animals are treated in our day is good, even necessarily in organic farms which does break my heart. My main issue with grains is the way they are produced today as well as what I've been reading about phytates and how they can interfere with absorption of certain vital minerals. Also, cross contamination and how most soy and corn products are GMO's. But, I realize similar could be said about even "humanely" treated animals and the junk that is in them, too. I'm also interested in some of Weston A. Price's work, though, which seems to prove that avoiding certain grains and consuming some very high quality animal products is truly beneficial. I do personally think that part of the reason paleo and vegan diets seem to be so successful is that people often avoid processed foods and obvious junk foods in the first place, rather than b/c most of the foods avoided are so bad, but yeah I also am a bit concerned that people will become sensitive to eating too much of certain things. I'm totally convinced of the health benefits of coconut and good eggs, for instance, but, at the same time people might eat too much of them. And then I'm not really convinced that baked paleo treats are really a whole lot healthier than gluten ones, probably slightly though.

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Old 02-01-2013, 08:40 AM   #10
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Re: Anyone torn between vegan or vegetarian and paleo?

I just recently went vegan...well, except honey...I just can't give that up just yet Plus, I buy my honey from a local guy, it's unpasteurized, it's divine <3 LOL That being said, I haven't had any other animal foods this entire month, and I feel great! I had some health/stomach issues that pushed me to this decision. After cutting out all the animal products, I did a liver/gallbladder cleanse. I have had friends just this week tell me I was glowing I have had no more stomach problems. I can sleep better. I'm not as grumpy/cranky as I was. I feel fabulous! that being said, I'm not a judgemental foody. I think we need to do the diet that works for us. And I don't make my boys follow a vegan diet, because honestly, they would probably starve to death ROFL. And I don't force it on DH either. I introduce new recipes periodically that I think they might like. Sometimes they are are big successes, sometimes not so much. When I cook supper, I just make sure that whatever veggies I cook are what I can eat in a healthy manner. I don't eat very much soy, aside from edamame. And I don't do many breads/pastas because of my stomach issues. I tend to only have breads/pastas once/week. And then when I do eat them they are either bean based, rice based, or whole wheat, and then it's still in limited quantities. I have watched a few documentaries (Forks over Knives, for example) that supported my decision in having a plant based diet. but again, I think it's individual as to what we choose to follow. I will say, I was following a high protein diet, and I honestly think that is what led to the health problems I have (low energy, grumpy, gallbladder problems, etc).
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