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Old 02-09-2013, 06:31 PM   #21
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Wow, thanks for kicking me while I'm down! You're such a sweetie.
Not my intention. (((( hugs)))) Sorry if I came across as being mean or snarky.

Read my post and it did come off more negative then I intended.

I have put my foot in my mouth before with our direct Neighbour and made things difficult for my whole family for over a year. I was never so happy to have moved. My DH was incredibly angry with me and they actually called the police falsely on us just to be spiteful.

I simply wanted to let you know how she probably interpreted what you said and the likely repercussions. I posted earlier in the thread suggesting you needed to be careful what you said or how it came across if you wanted things to not go south.

I have been on both sides of the situation. I once had to let a daycare child go because he was violent and actually smeared poop all over the playroom and toys while I was making lunch.

My Ds has been on the other side when he had some trouble at school with another child.
As a parent you go into protective mode automatically.

Again I'm sorry I hope things work out for all of you.

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Old 02-09-2013, 06:42 PM   #22
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She may need some time to cool off and think about things for a while. It's hard to hear your child isn't as perfect as you think they are. I know I've gotten my hackles up a bit with my parents when they complain about certain things my kids do. Then I realize they have momnesia.
This is so true. The first thing that happens when people question my kids behavior is I start thinking of all the reasons its not my child's fault. It's a gut reaction. Sometimes it's very hard to tell if it's "lax" parenting, other issues, or both. As for the hurting cats and other behaviors, all these are normal to a point (pulling a tail vs. More serious damaging behavior for example). It's really a matter of degree, frequency, and response to corrections, along with a cluster of other factors that determines if a child has a behavior disorder.

I hope this doesn't affect your DH. That's really hit or miss when it comes to guys. Good luck!
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Old 02-09-2013, 06:59 PM   #23
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Re: Defiant little girl...I have to tell my friend that her DD can't play with DS any

About the cat thing. My eldest had this thing where he wanted to push down on a cat at that age. If a cat was up walking, he tried to squish it down till it was flat. He also once tried to throw one down the (carpeted) stairs. I never got the impression he was trying to cause actual pain. It was like he didn't understand that it might hurt the cat or that the cat didn't like it.

Now I can't kill a bug with him around. They all must be set free and returned to the great outdoors from whence they came or there are tears. Yes, at almost 11. And I hit a squirrel on the road once by accident. We had to come back and move its carcass from the road, too. There was WAILING with that one, "Mom! She had NIPPLES! She has babies that are going to starve to death now!"

He's not NT though. He was diagnosed with ADHD-PI at age 8.
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Old 02-09-2013, 07:39 PM   #24
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Re: Defiant little girl...I have to tell my friend that her DD can't play with DS any

I know this situation is not ideal, but it's not of your own making. It doesn't matter how you worded it the other mom is in the wrong. When your child is destroying other people's property and hurting their children that is your problem. She should have been apologizing to you, not being offended. It's not a matter of "Is this normal" it's a matter of the mom not taking responsibility and stopping the poor behavior.
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Old 02-09-2013, 08:20 PM   #25
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Re: Defiant little girl...I have to tell my friend that her DD can't play with DS any

Can you open the conversation with some questions? Like,

"Tell me about Rosie's behavior at home..."
-or-
"Do you feel like Rosie listens to you well?"

I would let her tell you exactly what she sees and doesn't see happening. From that you can decide how blunt you should be.

a) There's a good chance Rosie's mom is frustrated by her behavior, and if she expresses this to you then you can sympathize, tell her that these are the reasons that you don't feel capable of watching Rosie in your home any longer, and then lead into your concerns about how extreme her behavior can be.

b) If she asserts that Rosie is a perfect angel and oh by the way, she's writing a book on parenting, then you know there isn't any use telling her much. She would probably be shocked and offended if you told her Rosie's behavior was abnormal, so you're better off telling her you just aren't as talented a mother as she is and it's a shame Rosie can't come over any more, but you clearly aren't able to bring out the best in her perfect darling.

Good luck. I don't envy you mama!
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Old 02-09-2013, 08:28 PM   #26
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Re: Defiant little girl...I have to tell my friend that her DD can't play with DS any

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Well that didn't go well. Pretty sure I just lost a friend. I told her that the two kids didn't get along well and that maybe it was their ages, or their dynamic, or something and maybe we need to take some space for them. I also told her that I can't seem to get a handle on Rosie when she's at my house and she doesn't seem to respond to discipline. I suggested maybe park playtime but not at our house because I feel like she needs to be shadowed all the time. I cant risk having holes poked in cushions or the wall anymore. She told me i didnt tell her about that, this was the first she heard, and i told her that we were both right there when it happened. Then things got ugly. She was standoffish and said it was good that we are being honest and that we are on the same page. She wouldn't feel comfortable at our house anyway now knowing how I really feel. I told her I felt like she was mad at me and she said she was hurt because I'm her friend but she respects how I feel. And she doesn't think that Rosie should be at my house anyway. I asked her if Rosie is like that at home, and she said they have their fair share of normal kid stuff. Then I should have just kept my mouth shut but I felt like I had to say that it's not normal kid stuff. That once she told me about Rosie hurting the cats I was honestly a little concerned. That kind of behavior isn't normal for 3yos. She said thanks, rudely. I said obviously you don't feel concerned about it and that I wasn't sure that I was even going to mention it but I am truly worried about her DD. She reiterated that she doesn't want to come to our house and said she wanted to get off the phone.

Super. So I totally alienated her. I don't think it even mattered that I said the stuff about Rosie's behavior, I think the damage was already done when I told we shouldn't get the kids together anymore. What a hard situation. I'm sure my DH is going to be livid with me now, since he is friends with the dad and also his boss. Hopefully those two can let it go as "women trouble" and not let it effect them.
So sorry to hear this. What an awkward situation. With time it will get better. And I know it's sexist, but I would probably tell my hubby "Oye, you know how moms can be" and leave it at that.
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Old 02-09-2013, 08:43 PM   #27
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Old 02-09-2013, 08:46 PM   #28
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Re: Defiant little girl...I have to tell my friend that her DD can't play with DS any

I wouldn't want her in my house anymore. She sounds much more destructive than the average three year old. You shouldn't have to shadow her at this age. She should be able to handle normal freedoms.

It's possible that she's showing off for your kids, and isn't that destructive without an audience, or sidekicks. But, it's still your house, and you don't have the time to shadow her.

Anyway, I'm sorry the talk hurt the mom's feelings. But, often, a parent needs to hear something several times from other people to realize that they need to make some changes. She is probably a typical challenging kid, but her parents either don't do anything, or don't know what to do, or don't think it's odd.

I had a lady from church tell me "My Mother in Law says my daughter is too hard to watch, and she won't let her spend the night with the other cousins anymore". So, I said "Well, she keeps the sunday school teachers very busy...they had to bring in one more adult just for her". Mom had no idea we had done that. Nobody ever really TOLD her. We had complaints each week, but we never really said "Because of her behavior, we need a third adult in the room". So, they made some very severe changes at home. It got better. But, they had to hear it a few times before realizing it was the child, not the adults around her.
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Old 02-09-2013, 08:53 PM   #29
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Re: Defiant little girl...I have to tell my friend that her DD can't play with DS any

First off, ignore that post - I agree, kicking you while you're down.

Secondly, it sounds like she's taking it personally - just like most parents would/do when they're told something about their own kids. You get defensive, you don't want to admit that your kid does wrong, it feels like an attack on you or your parenting - kwim?
I think you did the right thing, although I don't know that I would have gone that far into it.

Third, if you lose her as a friend, so be it. And if your DH is pissy about it, whatever. You stood up for your child, you put his safety first, and that's your job as his mommy - to keep him safe, no matter how uncomfortable that may be for you.
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Old 02-09-2013, 09:27 PM   #30
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This little girl sounds exactly like my son. We are working with a psychologist. He is diagnosed ODD and RAD. This little girl sounds like she has ODD. They need to have her evaluated.

This is the sad but real reason that DS never goes on playdates. I cannot control his behavior and he hurts kids. We saw a therapist at first, but he was a social worker, and couldn't "fix" DS. Now we are with a psychologist. Things are better, but there is no magic pill. The only way you can fix the attention seeking behavior is to ignore it, which is hard when there are other kids involved. Hurting people and breaking things are attention seeking behaviors. Basically, kiddo is going to do anything in his power to get attention, even if it is negative attention. DS throws things, scratches people, hits, tears things up, you name it. For awhile, time out for him was strapped in a carseat in the middle of our living room because he couldn't even stay in time out. At that point, he starts screaming and makes himself throw up because he knows it gets attention. You can punish attention seekers til you are blue in the face and it won't change the behavior. They thrive on the drama. You have to ignore the heck out of the behaviors to extinguish it. But oh my goodness is it hard to do sometimes. The second they do something and you react, it becomes a part of their arsenal. You have to ignore so much stuff with them.

"Parenting the Defiant Child" by Kazdin is a good read. It helps parents to A) realize that sometimes things are beyond your control, and B) how to deal with defiant children. The sooner you start dealing with this stuff, the better. DS started in therapy at 2.5, and was diagnosed full out at 3.5.

Good luck mama!
Thread hijack, sorry! Your ds sounds very much like mine. He's almost 5yo. We've seen a few therapist and aren't getting anywhere. I think ignoring the behavior would help but what do you in situations that can't be ignored? Like getting out of bed after lights out, refusing to let me brush his teeth before school or running all over the yard instead of getting in the car? It's these situations that leave me feeling helpless and often times lead to yelling. Play dates are also a nightmare for us that always end with me carrying him out kicking and screaming.

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