Need some info on circing

[birdinhand]

From what I quoted above:

"More uncircumcised infant males will experience urinary tract infections in the first 3 years of life, but protective effects of circumcision diminish over time.
• There is a 2–10% complication rate associated with RIC. A 2% complication rate means circumcising 1,000 urologically normal infant males will prevent 9 cases of urinary tract infection, but cause circumcision complications in 20 babies."

So by three years of age, the "protective" benefits of circ'ing to prevent a UTI evens out so intact and circ'd are at the same rate.

Anecdata, I know, but none of my intact babies ever had a UTI; my sister's son did, but he also had kidney reflux.

[Puppydog]

Originally Posted by abunchoflemons if protected intercourse it takes more to use condoms for uncir. my cousin had horrible issues and my bro did so that was a factor too for me for uncir..

That isn't true at all. Condoms work the same regardless of the state of the penis.

Originally Posted by MyLovely Just wanted to point out that I am a very staunch intactivist, I just feel that sweeping the research under the rug doesn't make us look very good. I haven't looked in depth at the African studies, because they in no way translate to the western world. The risk of UTI is lower, but as we all know, it's absolutely no big deal to take some antibiotics. As for penile cancer, I pointed out that the risk is already so very small, the risk of severe complications from circumcising are undoubtedly higher. All in all, this is the sort of issue where you have to hunt to find evidence to support it, and the "pros" aren't really all that applicable in the first world, where condoms abound, we have great healthcare and access to showers.

Africa does have showers and such. The study actually translates world wide. We don't live in mud huts here.

[Midwife@heart]

You barely find pros because there are none. The penis is a healthy organ and should be left alone.

[DesertRat]

Originally Posted by Puppydog That isn't true at all. Condoms work the same regardless of the state of the penis. Africa does have showers and such. The study actually translates world wide. We don't live in mud huts here.

I'm not sure where in Africa those studies were done. But I know that some places in Africa believe some bizarre things-- like having sex with a virgin can cure HIV/AIDS, so sadly you have men raping children and babies trying to cure themselves. Given the misinformation they believe, telling them that circumcision will prevent HIV may possibly just give them an excuse to engage in unsafe sex if they think they are somehow protected.

I absolutely would not let studies done in Africa about HIV influence whether or not I circ'd my sons. Also, follow-up studies have shown an increase in HIV among circ'd men in Africa.

[MyLovely]

Originally Posted by Puppydog That isn't true at all. Condoms work the same regardless of the state of the penis. Africa does have showers and such. The study actually translates world wide. We don't live in mud huts here.

Originally Posted by DesertRat I'm not sure where in Africa those studies were done. But I know that some places in Africa believe some bizarre things-- like having sex with a virgin can cure HIV/AIDS, so sadly you have men raping children and babies trying to cure themselves. Given the misinformation they believe, telling them that circumcision will prevent HIV may possibly just give them an excuse to engage in unsafe sex if they think they are somehow protected. I absolutely would not let studies done in Africa about HIV influence whether or not I circ'd my sons. Also, follow-up studies have shown an increase in HIV among circ'd men in Africa.

Thank you. Africa is a vast continent with countless differing levels of development, cultures and beliefs. No western country faces the HIV/AIDS epidemic that several countries there do. Western nations have access to sex education and condoms, so when the church says "condoms don't prevent HIV so don't use them", we can ignore him as we have multiple sources of information. We have access to medical care. I know that you, in South Africa, are not living in a mud hut. I'm most certainly no dumb American. It is impossible, however, to try and make a correlation between the lifestyles of someone living in the Democratic Republic of the Congo (world's poorest county) and someone living in South Africa, or America, or Canada, or the UK. People are people, yes, but culture, lifestyles and access to basic amenities are the biggest factors in disease spreading.

[ktmelody]

Originally Posted by Puppydog That isn't true at all. Condoms work the same regardless of the state of the penis. Africa does have showers and such. The study actually translates world wide. We don't live in mud huts here.

The African studies were flawed. They had been thrown out. And they were done near the Congo which as you know is nothing like South Africa.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22320006

[mmeneely]

No one in my family ever (genuinely never) has been circ and everyone has been fine.
I am told it is a N.American practice that is being phased out. It is $300 payable by cash only and not offered around here. Only one doc will do it and he is hours away.
-Likely only one doc because for doing that to wee babies, he deserves to get his thing sliced as well...

[snoggle]

IMHO - Routine infant circumcision mostly benefits the doc who performs it - $$$$

I'm a nurse practitioner, so is my husband. For years I worked primarily in pediatrics. UTI's aren't that common in little boys, circ-ed or not. IMO, any minuscule reduction in UTI rate isn't worth the risk of performing unnecessary surgery on a newborn. I'm holding my intact, 7 week old son right now. He was born perfect, why mess with a good thing.

BTW, my husband is circ-ed, but because he took care of 100's of newborn boys post-circ, when he worked on the postpartum floor, he did not want our son circ-ed. The post-surgery care can be painful and can actually hinder breastfeeding success. Caring for a newborn is hard enough, why throw circ care and post-surgical pain in there too?

[TrennaII]

You're very brave for asking the question here, the debate as you're seeing is full of very strong feelings.
It was once believed that there were health benefits, but this has been a disproven enough that the major medical associations no longer promote it. I think people exaggerate about the risks and are unnecessarily cruel to people who consider or do circumcise, but it's believe it's true that the benefits do not outweigh the risks.

For more objective less dramatic info, try the American Academy of Pediatrics or a similar large, National entity that isn't super focused on this one issue.

[burnsis]

click the link in my signature, lots of info there

I have two intact boys, and whenever I read something new on the subject I am always thankful that I researched it, and decided to keep them as nature intended