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Old 02-20-2013, 04:26 PM   #31
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Re: Dads rights: naming, circing, etc?

For circ, only one parent has to consent, but if the other parent explicitly voices a refusal before it's been done, then it can't (legally) be done.

This is exactly what happened with my DS. He was born prematurely and my DH and I had discussions about circ, but we hadn't reached an agreement before he was born. My DH signed a consent for it while I was still unconscious following a traumatic birth. Luckily, the NICU doesn't circ until discharge and I found out about the consent my DH had signed and refused the circ before it was completed, so DS was not circed.

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Old 02-20-2013, 04:49 PM   #32
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Re: Dads rights: naming, circing, etc?

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I'm a bit confused to what the actual debate is, do I think a mom should get 100% say or do I think I get 100% say?

I generally pull the " I'm carrying it, I'm naming it" card, but in reality I come up with names I like and we discuss them.
this.

eta: legally, I think it's an impossible and inappropriate thing to legislate. So while I think that in many circumstances, getting the other parent's consent is the ethical thing to do, I can't imagine supporting any legislation or judicial reasoning that mandates joint consent.
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Old 02-20-2013, 04:55 PM   #33
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Re: Dads rights: naming, circing, etc?

I know mom doesn't have to use the fathers last name. I am assuming mom has 100% say in the name, period? First middle and last? Whether married, seperated, divorced, etc? Does the father never have any say period? By law here, if you are married the child's last name has to be the husband's unless the husband signs a form agreeing to the different name. If the woman is not married, she therefore can pick any name she wants.

And not to debate circing in and of itself, but I assume that's moms say as well, either way? Again here (although it may have only been hospital policy), mom and dad (listed on the birth certificate) both had to sign for a circumcision. Basically both parents had to agree or it wouldn't be performed.

I mean, I don't even have to let him in the room YK. This is true at the hospital I delivered at too, but unless there was some type of court order or other legal documentation keeping him from the baby, once the baby was born he would be able to see the baby even if I didn't want him too.
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Old 02-20-2013, 05:11 PM   #34
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Re: Dads rights: naming, circing, etc?

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Originally Posted by cbreeding View Post
I know mom doesn't have to use the fathers last name. I am assuming mom has 100% say in the name, period? First middle and last? Whether married, seperated, divorced, etc? Does the father never have any say period? By law here, if you are married the child's last name has to be the husband's unless the husband signs a form agreeing to the different name. If the woman is not married, she therefore can pick any name she wants.

[...]
where is this?!
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Old 02-20-2013, 05:15 PM   #35
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I know dh signed all the papers for the birth certificate while I was knocked out. He put down our sons name as the name we agreed to. The circ thing, I signed (stupidly) dh wasn't there.
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Old 02-20-2013, 05:33 PM   #36
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Re: Dads rights: naming, circing, etc?

I imagine his legal say depends somewhat on whether the partners are married? But, like many here, I would hope his say would be equal.

I wanted to chime in that it is a crying shame that custody laws are biased against the men. I know that those laws were developed with good intents, but there are some really good men out there who would have wanted more involvement w/ their kids and, in some cases, would have raised them better themselves. I appreciate that particularly when divorce was less popular, often women and children were escaping abusers, but times have changed. And there are occasions when the women are the most abusive. The best thing for the kids is not always in the direction of the present bias. So even as we need better laws for women in some areas, we sometimes also need better ones for men. That said, talking to peops who handle divorce law, it seems to be rarer than rare (despite the popular memes of golddiggers) for women to claim their fair share in a divorce even when the lawyer tries to encourage it. Even after the facts have been laid out for them, women will most often choose to raise their kids in poverty b/c they don't understand on some emotional level that they deserve more in compensation for working while he continued school, for instance, or for staying with the kids. I was surprised to learn this. So women are rarely getting their due either but in a different way. All's not fair in love and war.

I'm surprised to hear that, if married, the child must take the father's name unless he signs off. His name is normative, so I guess that makes it more orderly. And I guess for couples where men have taken on the hyphenated name that hyphenated name is what would pass on, so their concerns are already taken care of. Still, for some reason, it is just surprising to read.
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Old 02-20-2013, 06:10 PM   #37
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Re: Dads rights: naming, circing, etc?

I think either can do anything. i know not married in our situation as i had girl i decided to have kid have my last name. long back story but got paternity though.....hubby & i talked on boy for circing & stuff....i think if married the 2 should talk & agree on things.
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Old 02-20-2013, 06:43 PM   #38
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Morally I think they should have equal say. Not sure on the legal aspect as I've never had to look into it.

DH and I agree on all our children's names and if he didnt like one at all the. I wouldn't name them that, vise versa.
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Old 02-20-2013, 09:01 PM   #39
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Historically (as in before the last 75 years) the man had all the rights to the children. They were considered his property (and so was the wife). He could do anything he wanted to his kids. this included keeping the mom away if he choose to. This continued up until about 1940s and changed as women got more rights. Maybe it has gone too far, but courts are now required to considered the best interests of the child rather than automatically going with one parent or another.

Now, in most states if parents are married, husband is presumptive father even if proven by DNA that he's not the dad. If not married, varies by state as to how a dad est. paternity.

Legally both parents gave equal ability to consent to medical decisions. If one parent wanted something different, the parent could go to court and get an injunction to stop it and have a court decide.

As to the name, in Oregon neither parent signs the BC. DD2, DH wasn't even there when I did the bc. With DD1, the hospital "named" the baby what ever mom's last name is. I didn't change my name when I got married. The hospital put the wrong last name (mine) on the BC. Boy was I po'ed about it.

I recently pondered if parents could give a kid any old last name. I mean could I have named my kid John Smith when our last name was Jones?
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Old 02-20-2013, 09:03 PM   #40
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Re: Dads rights: naming, circing, etc?

I think there should be agreement or at least compromise with the name and I don't think either parent has the right to circ their child without grave medical necessity so I wouldn't be with a man who felt it was a choice for him.

oops should have read further...never thought about the legalities..interesting!
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