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Old 04-07-2013, 08:23 PM   #1
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I really need some advice for strong willed DDs

I'll preface this by saying two yrs ago I left their dad, moved in with my mom, and six months ago moved out on my own. DD1 is 6.5. DD2 is 3.5. DD1 is in a regular school and on Fridays goes to a gifted school all day long because her intelligence is well above avg. DD2 is in a 3 yr daycare/school setting all day while I work full time. Every other week from Th afternoon-Mon morn they go to their dad's, then two days later on Wed they go overnight.

My girls don't listen to me at all, esp. my oldest. My DD2 can be very sweet and shares a lot, but if she doesn't get her way she will scream at the top of her lungs.

DD1 is so stubborn and strong willed- like I am, we are both scorpios. She also is a huge bawl baby and will throw a fit over ANYTHING no matter how insignificant it is! She drives me nuts, she talks non-stop, questions every single thing that I say, etc. I will say, I have VERY little patience for her, because I can't get a second of down time once I am off work and pick them up. The weekends I am off are the weekends I have them home, and I work the weekends their dad has them, so I am constantly busy.

Tonight was my last straw. We spent all day cleaning the house, they had trashed their bedroom and playroom. DD2 helped more than DD1 who only wanted to play on the Kindle. I did the majority of it. We rewarded them by going to Chuck E Cheese, because I rarely have money for that. Come home, do bath time with them together. Then it's bed time. For the last hour, they have continued to talk, come out of their room, etc. I finally went in there and ranted at them to go to sleep. DD2 started mouthing off and telling me no, I told her if she kept telling me no I was going to spank her behind. I honestly can't remember the last time either got spanked because I REALLY hate spanking. Well she wouldn't stop, so DD2 got spanked then actually settled down. I apologized to her and told her I didn't want to spank her but she didn't want to listen. DD1 before I came in had been singing, jumping on her bed, etc.

How the heck do I get these kids to go to bed and stay in bed? Every night they go to bed at the same time- 8:30-9pm. They both sleep in the same room, unless DD2 ends up in my bed in the middle of the night, which I am now sick of because I slept with her for two yrs.

I probably sound very insensitive but this has been going on for way too long. Pretty much since I started working a yr ago. We were all much happier when I was a SAHM living with my mom, but I can't do that now.

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Old 04-07-2013, 08:57 PM   #2
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Re: I really need some advice for strong willed DDs

First, I am so sorry you have to deal with this especially after a long day at work. also, NO its not wrong to occasionally spank your child and it seemed like you took the appropriate steps when doing it (explain to the child why you did it and then comfort them after they understand why it happened).
Second, have you tried punishing them and following through with it? Catch them goofing off you warn them and then the second time its time out. Standing or sitting in the corner will show them you mean business but you NEED to stick to your guns. Once they see weakness they will run all over you. Do they do this with dad? have you guys spoken about this? You two need to be on the same page as far as bedtimes, keeping their schedules, and discipline.
third, i wouldnt discourage DD1's curiosity but I WOULD put a stop to her questioning you. Eventually explaining your actions will get tiresome and you will resort to "because i said so". lol. you should tell her that people think its rude to do that. she is a little girl and even though she might be smart she should NEVER be allowed to talk to anyone that way.
I understand its hard to take something away from one while the other is good but if you took chucky cheese from both of them then the one who deserved it will eventually get really mad at the other for missing out. Peer pressure could work to your advantage. haha.
Anyway, its not easy, my mom was a single mother with me and my brother. we were latch key kids in the afternoon but she was always home to make dinner and help with homework. women in tougher situations have done it so dont lose hope.
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Old 04-07-2013, 09:02 PM   #3
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Re: I really need some advice for strong willed DDs

Decide on some rules, make them clear to the girls, make them aware of the consequences, and follow through. For instance, in our house, electronics are off limits until work is completed, and work has to be completed before dinner. We homeschool, so that time frame might not work for you, but the idea is the same. We don't clean rooms every day, either. I have gotten a lot less arguing since we switched to a looser schedule for cleaning. Now we clean rooms 3 days a week (always the same day, so routine is there).

If possible, you might look into counseling. I haven't dealt with divorce, so I really don't know what you have gone through with that, nor do I know what your girls have gone through, and what y'all are going through. I do know that several people I have spoken with who deal with children going back and forth between houses have said that counseling has made a huge difference in making things work.
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Old 04-07-2013, 09:10 PM   #4
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I can't help much wit bedtimes, but you mentioned tantrums and screaming, and I have experience with that, lol. Had 4 and 5 year old siblings as foster kids, and they would do this when they didn't get their way. After months of trying every positive attachment based parenting technique under the sun without improvement, I decided to try a technique a fellow foster mom told me about. Her foster daughter would scream literally for hours. She set a rule that screaming is not allowed in the house...all screaming must take place outdoors. So I got the caseworkers to sign off on the technique and gave it a try. Sat them down and explained the new rule. It did not take long for them to test it. Once they started screaming I gently escorted them to the front porch and I went back inside (watching from a window for safety).

There were times when it was cold and I would hand them their coat, socks, and a blanket. If it was raining they got a towel to sit on and an umbrella. If t was hot a bottle of water and a quick spray with bug spray. Regardless of the conditions, the minute they started yelling they went outside. As soon as they were quiet and calm they were allowed back in. It was literally the only thing that worked with these two! They actually showed great improvement and it helped them learn to calm themselves. Just throwing the idea out there in case it might help.
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Old 04-07-2013, 09:35 PM   #5
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Re: I really need some advice for strong willed DDs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Armymom31 View Post
First, I am so sorry you have to deal with this especially after a long day at work. also, NO its not wrong to occasionally spank your child and it seemed like you took the appropriate steps when doing it (explain to the child why you did it and then comfort them after they understand why it happened).
Second, have you tried punishing them and following through with it? Catch them goofing off you warn them and then the second time its time out. Standing or sitting in the corner will show them you mean business but you NEED to stick to your guns. Once they see weakness they will run all over you. Do they do this with dad? have you guys spoken about this? You two need to be on the same page as far as bedtimes, keeping their schedules, and discipline. Dad and I don't get along unless his gf is out of town. We had an hour long convo a few wks ago when he stopped by work to pay me c.s. I let him know how nice it was to talk about the experiences with the kids together. Since then, nada. I picked them the other day from his house, his gf and her g-ma were there, and his new puppy ran out and I was talking about how cute the puppy was and how the girls had told me about Lucy and he pretty much gave me an angry look that said leave. It is very very hard to talk to him because of her.
third, i wouldnt discourage DD1's curiosity but I WOULD put a stop to her questioning you. Eventually explaining your actions will get tiresome and you will resort to "because i said so". lol. you should tell her that people think its rude to do that. she is a little girl and even though she might be smart she should NEVER be allowed to talk to anyone that way. I try to answer most questions but some are so DUH that I don't even bother and ignore her. Like she knows where we are going, yet asks again where are we going. I've told her asking me questions none stop makes it hard for me to drive or concentrate on cooking, etc. She's just such an inquisitive kid. I wish she knew how to spell/read better so all her other questions could be answered on google lol.
I understand its hard to take something away from one while the other is good but if you took chucky cheese from both of them then the one who deserved it will eventually get really mad at the other for missing out. Peer pressure could work to your advantage. haha. True story, but I don't think my 3 yr old would have completely understood. :-(
Anyway, its not easy, my mom was a single mother with me and my brother. we were latch key kids in the afternoon but she was always home to make dinner and help with homework. Ya I was raised by a single mom too. I think DD1 should've been an only child like I was for ten yrs before my younger sister came along. Mom always said there was no way in heck she'd have two of me close together lol. women in tougher situations have done it so dont lose hope.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tallanvor View Post
Decide on some rules, make them clear to the girls, make them aware of the consequences, and follow through. For instance, in our house, electronics are off limits until work is completed, and work has to be completed before dinner. We homeschool, so that time frame might not work for you, but the idea is the same. We don't clean rooms every day, either. I have gotten a lot less arguing since we switched to a looser schedule for cleaning. Now we clean rooms 3 days a week (always the same day, so routine is there).

Honestly, I hate that my kids like electronics. That's what they fight about most. Two wks ago, they wouldn't clean their rooms. I locked their playroom door and took away the electronics for over a week. They played with each other every day and ran around in the yard with the dogs. I am about to do it again, because they get so selfish and mean when I let them play on the kindle or laptop.

If possible, you might look into counseling. I haven't dealt with divorce, so I really don't know what you have gone through with that, nor do I know what your girls have gone through, and what y'all are going through. I do know that several people I have spoken with who deal with children going back and forth between houses have said that counseling has made a huge difference in making things work.
I am definitely considering this. I have full benefits on all three of us. Not sure what it would be out of pocket, but I am sure it would be beneficial to all of us.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PurpleFluff View Post
I can't help much wit bedtimes, but you mentioned tantrums and screaming, and I have experience with that, lol. Had 4 and 5 year old siblings as foster kids, and they would do this when they didn't get their way. After months of trying every positive attachment based parenting technique under the sun without improvement, I decided to try a technique a fellow foster mom told me about. Her foster daughter would scream literally for hours. She set a rule that screaming is not allowed in the house...all screaming must take place outdoors. So I got the caseworkers to sign off on the technique and gave it a try. Sat them down and explained the new rule. It did not take long for them to test it. Once they started screaming I gently escorted them to the front porch and I went back inside (watching from a window for safety).

There were times when it was cold and I would hand them their coat, socks, and a blanket. If it was raining they got a towel to sit on and an umbrella. If t was hot a bottle of water and a quick spray with bug spray. Regardless of the conditions, the minute they started yelling they went outside. As soon as they were quiet and calm they were allowed back in. It was literally the only thing that worked with these two! They actually showed great improvement and it helped them learn to calm themselves. Just throwing the idea out there in case it might help.
LOL I would LOVE to do this, BUT I have neighbors within feet of me on both sides. Funny story though. I grew up on ten acres. My little step sister and I must have been driving my mom nuts while she took care of my baby sister. She sent us outside and said run back on the property and get all the loudness out. We screamed and screamed and yelled some more. My step dad came out there and almost whooped our butts because at first he thought we'd been hurt then realized we were just being loud and annoying. We got to blame mom ;-)

I do make them go on their beds if they want to scream and yell.
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Old 04-19-2013, 02:57 AM   #6
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Re: I really need some advice for strong willed DDs

Hope things are getting better. I think electronics are evil. My kids get so nasty when they have them and wont do much around the house unless I take them away and turn off the internet
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Old 04-19-2013, 04:02 AM   #7
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My sisters kids constantly question & she hates to spank to. & said if she did timeouts they wd be in timeout all day. She now flicks her girls in the mouth. It is very effective & she rarely has to do it.

Also she uses the Happiest toddler on the block technique. Ages 1-5 but you could modify it for your oldest.
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Old 04-19-2013, 09:34 AM   #8
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Re: I really need some advice for strong willed DDs

Some kids are naturally strong willed and very hard to parent. I have 4 kids and my ODS is very strong willed, always was, has mellowed a bit with age, now 9. Toddler through age 6 ish was the most difficult.


Not sure if your 3.5 y old is also or just tends to follow along with your ODD? That does happen here now and then. I have a 3.5 yr old too.



Ditto the set rules. If it's in the rules then they seem to realize the consequence more - as in post up a set of rules that she can read.


I wouldn't do too many rules either, just the top 5 for now.


Stick with it or else your word/rules mean nothing.


I found the more negative I was the worse he got. The more positive I was(good job for cleaning your room, let's not forget to put your laundry in the basket) the better he responded. I'm not all about praise praise praise, but it worked for ODS.

3.5 year old......just getting to that great age where you can start anew on rules and expectations.


It's a hard time for them too, so some of this is probably expected plus stressful for you. I was devastated when my parents split up at about age 4, does take a toll on kids and super stressful for parents. Kids can see stress very easily too.
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Old 04-19-2013, 09:44 AM   #9
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Re: I really need some advice for strong willed DDs

I swear that electronics change my kids personalities. My oldest is only allowed to play on weekends and its time for time. As in each day the amount of time spent cleaning/chores is a 1:1 ratio to time earned on the weekend. I wouldn't let my younger play electronics at all. The only exception for my toddler is he is allowed to play ipad when I need him to play quietly, like at a dr appointment. My almost 3 year old is very intense, always sounds like he is whining and upset, even if I put ice in his water he will have a meltdown. He goes straight to time out, and after being assaulted, screamed at etc he is just starting to improve.
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Old 04-19-2013, 09:56 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarah-B
My sisters kids constantly question & she hates to spank to. & said if she did timeouts they wd be in timeout all day. She now flicks her girls in the mouth. It is very effective & she rarely has to do it.

Also she uses the Happiest toddler on the block technique. Ages 1-5 but you could modify it for your oldest.
Hugs mama
I just want to say that I know someone who flicked their child in the mouth for him spitting at her and she split his lip open. She didn't flick hard, the lip was cut by being stick in between a finger and teeth. It was bloody and led to fear and guilt instead of discipline success. I'd be VERY careful advising this.
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