Reply Hey Mom! Learn more about the Gerber Life Insurance Grow-Up Plan!
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-05-2014, 09:16 AM   #11
TheCoach'sWife's Avatar
TheCoach'sWife
Registered Users
seller
seller
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Western North Carolina
Posts: 3,638
My Mood:
Re: Homebirth increases adverse outcomes and death

Thanks for taking the time to both research and type all this out. This is an awesome collection of information.

Advertisement

__________________
Mentionable UnMentionables

TheCoach'sWife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2014, 09:46 AM   #12
Minniebees's Avatar
Minniebees
Registered Users
Formerly: Mom2two
seller
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: You stay classy, San Diego
Posts: 9,130
My Mood:
Re: Homebirth increases adverse outcomes and death

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lammy View Post
I just wanted to say that some states have rather rigorous qualifications for a mother to have a home birth and to become a midwife that may attend homebirths. My first two were born in the hospital and third was born at home in Arkansas. I had to submit to every single test required by my local health department (Pulaski county) and I was not allowed to decline any of them. My first two I was able to decline quite a few prenatal tests (such as the stds testing, the pap smear bc I had had one done a few months prior,the longer gestational diabetes test, and an ultra sound). And I was able to decline them even though I was giving birth in the hospital. I have very low risk pregnancies and even with that track record the health dept said I had to have all those tests in order to birth at home. Maybe not all states have the same requirements as AR but I felt very safe in my decision to homebirth and the nurse practitioner felt the same way once all the tests came back showing I was indeed low risk. You also have to be with in so many miles of a hospital with a labor and delivery unit and must have ambulance services in your area and a back up plan in case of transfer. My midwife also was very strict (compassionate but still strict) with her guidelines for keeping me and my baby healthy enough to safely birth at home. She monitored what I ate, how much sleep I was getting, the amount I exercised each day...the list goes on. So I actually put MORE effort into my decision to birth at home than I did my decision to birth in a hospital and I was monitored more closely and taken better care of during my 3rd pregnancy than my other two.

And for what it's worth I believe those restrictions and guidelines to homebirth are very important and are glad they were in place in the state I lived in. It helped to assure me that I was making the best possible choice for my family and I was going to have the best birth possible for us as well.
Some states have more regulations, but when you look at the bigger picture, homebirth is not as safe. Unfortunately, states like Oregon that have a higher rate of homebirth, also have fewer regulations, and babies are dying because of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by homebirthmom View Post
eh, I will still take my chances and birth at home. safer in MY opinion
Now you have the information to make a truly informed decision. I just hope that when you talk to others about it, you don't hide it. There was a good analogy on a thread on MDC about the MANA data. Driving cross country in an RV is more dangerous than flying, but people still make that choice. However, if the RV company told you that driving an RV was safer, and used pictures of plane crashes and fear mongering to convince you, that would be wrong.

The body of data here is pretty solid, and has a surprisingly consistent result (homebirth increases death by about 3-5 times). No one is saying to take that choice away from moms. What we should be saying, though, is how do we improve this? How do we stop babies from dying?
__________________
Wife to my Navy doc, SAHM to 4 (11, 8, 5, 1)
Minniebees is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2014, 10:01 AM   #13
tink90's Avatar
tink90
Registered Users
seller
seller
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Wonderland
Posts: 1,142
My Mood:
Re: Homebirth increases adverse outcomes and death

Quote:
Originally Posted by homebirthmom View Post
eh, I will still take my chances and birth at home. safer in MY opinion
I'm with you
__________________
Wife and help-meet to the love of my life, mama to J (8), S (6) C (10/9/12) and prayerfully expecting Stormageddon July 2014

*.~.~.*Petalheads*.~.~.*
http://www.diaperswappers.com/forum/....php?t=1484149
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Petal...61515813886015
tink90 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2014, 10:07 AM   #14
bazil323's Avatar
bazil323
Registered Users
seller
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Cameron, WI
Posts: 170
My Mood:
Re: Homebirth increases adverse outcomes and death

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minniebees View Post
The body of data here is pretty solid, and has a surprisingly consistent result (homebirth increases death by about 3-5 times). No one is saying to take that choice away from moms. What we should be saying, though, is how do we improve this? How do we stop babies from dying?
This is a good point. Informed decisions must be made for anything. These studies show the overall risks for homebirths, including less trained/less experienced midwives and high trained/high experienced midwives, so obviously, you are taking a risk if you choose a midwife who is a direct entry midwife with little experience and little observational experience (shadowing/apprenticing with a more experienced midwife). However, you do not take the same risk if you choose a midwife who, for example, has trained as a nurse midwife and must pass certification exams to practice and possibly even to attend homebirths, has attended years' worth of births, and is able to give medications like Pitocin to stop bleeding and carries oxygen. It's just not comparing apples to apples. That is like comparing a first responder (someone who can do CPR and bandages but not a whole lot else) with a paramedic (someone who can start IVs, give medications, perform/read EKGs). Or comparing a highschool football player with an NFL player. Just not the same.

This speaks to doing your research before meeting with midwives and picking one. Just because you like their personality doesn't mean that they are a good fit. Find out how often they transfer, the kinds of things they transfer for, what their complication rate is, how much monitoring they do on you to make sure you are still "safe" to home birth. I put safe in quotations because there are no guarantees in healthcare, no matter the setting.

The same goes for doctors too. Do your research. Try to find out what kind of infection rates, Cesarean rates, etc. they have. Make sure they are board certified (or eligible & applying for board certification if they are fresh out of residency).

Personally, I do think homebirths are safer but only when you are using a well-trained midwife and are dealing with a low-risk pregnancy and are prepared for it. However, not every midwife is going to fit the bill, and you need to educate yourself on pregnancy, labor, and birth in order to make the best decisions and have the best outcome in whatever situation arises (prepare yourself mentally for every possibility). I firmly believe that you can have a bad outcome in a hospital or a homebirth if you choose the wrong provider, and even if you choose a good provider, if you make choices that put you at higher risk of complications, you can have bad outcomes. Pregnancy and labor are not all about you as a mother. Instead, it's a partnership between you, the baby, your partner, and your healthcare provider. You should be the leader in this partnership because you know how you react and you have the most intimate knowledge about what is going on in the pregnancy and how the baby is acting, but it's still a partnership. A delicate ballet if you will between your wishes and hopes, the reality of your/baby's health, and the training/experience/judgment of your provider.
__________________
Homebirthing, breastfeeding, cloth diapering mama to beautiful baby girl born 11/11/2013 and wife to best daddy ever!
bazil323 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2014, 10:09 AM   #15
Lammy
Registered Users
seller
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 523
My Mood:
Re: Homebirth increases adverse outcomes and death

And I understand that when it comes to clinical studies the big picture is important in order to compile the data so the majority of people can understand its outcomes. But I know from my personal experiences homebirth was the better option, was safer for me and my baby. Now if my baby was breech or I had been GBS+ or had a tendency to give birth before 36 wks or could not find a qualified midwife to attend my son's birth then my view would probably be very different on where it was safer to birth at. I can't think a person can look at all the statistics and just negate their own health and experiences and say it is or isn't safer for a specific woman (not a group just one woman) to give birth at home.

I also wonder how different these statistics would be if all midwives worked underneath doctors here. I know when I was trying to find an ob to do all the tests so I wouldn't have to go to the health dept no ob would see me (not even the one who was my provider for my first two births) because I was going to have a home birth. I wonder if obs and midwives were able to work together if the homebirth stats would improve over all.
__________________
Mama to the Tenacious B, Super Bubba, and Atty.
Lammy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2014, 10:22 AM   #16
AtLeast's Avatar
AtLeast
Registered
Formerly: rli***t
seller
seller
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Oregon Coast
Posts: 1,800
Re: Homebirth increases adverse outcomes and death

I would like to applaud MANA and my state of OR for being forthright about their statistics. My own 4 OR homebirths were a part if these data. I doubt you would ever get such an honest report from any hospital. And if you did, the statistics would likely look very different.

I am very much for making informed decisions. I am grateful I have the ability to choose where I birth and with whom. I would hate for studies like this, that doesn't have an equally honest hospital representation, prompt legislation taking away that ability.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - probably while nursing, just in case none of this makes sense.
__________________
~Rebekah~Mother of 9, 6 of whom I have the honor of raising, 3 with Jesus..
AtLeast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2014, 10:36 AM   #17
squirrelgirl's Avatar
squirrelgirl
Registered Users
seller
seller
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: tennessee
Posts: 841
My Mood:
Re: Homebirth increases adverse outcomes and death

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minniebees View Post
Now you have the information to make a truly informed decision. I just hope that when you talk to others about it, you don't hide it. There was a good analogy on a thread on MDC about the MANA data. Driving cross country in an RV is more dangerous than flying, but people still make that choice. However, if the RV company told you that driving an RV was safer, and used pictures of plane crashes and fear mongering to convince you, that would be wrong.

The body of data here is pretty solid, and has a surprisingly consistent result (homebirth increases death by about 3-5 times). No one is saying to take that choice away from moms. What we should be saying, though, is how do we improve this? How do we stop babies from dying?
Excellent point!
__________________
I'm Brittany! Wife to B since 10/09 & blessed CDing, BFing, BWing momma to K(4/11) & P(11/12).

Because the sinless Savior died, my sinful soul is counted free!
squirrelgirl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2014, 11:04 AM   #18
qsefthuko's Avatar
qsefthuko
Registered Users
sitesupporter
seller
seller
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 17,373
Re: Homebirth increases adverse outcomes and death

Quote:
Originally Posted by bazil323 View Post
This is a good point. Informed decisions must be made for anything. These studies show the overall risks for homebirths, including less trained/less experienced midwives and high trained/high experienced midwives, so obviously, you are taking a risk if you choose a midwife who is a direct entry midwife with little experience and little observational experience (shadowing/apprenticing with a more experienced midwife). However, you do not take the same risk if you choose a midwife who, for example, has trained as a nurse midwife and must pass certification exams to practice and possibly even to attend homebirths, has attended years' worth of births, and is able to give medications like Pitocin to stop bleeding and carries oxygen. It's just not comparing apples to apples. That is like comparing a first responder (someone who can do CPR and bandages but not a whole lot else) with a paramedic (someone who can start IVs, give medications, perform/read EKGs). Or comparing a highschool football player with an NFL player. Just not the same.

This speaks to doing your research before meeting with midwives and picking one. Just because you like their personality doesn't mean that they are a good fit. Find out how often they transfer, the kinds of things they transfer for, what their complication rate is, how much monitoring they do on you to make sure you are still "safe" to home birth. I put safe in quotations because there are no guarantees in healthcare, no matter the setting.

The same goes for doctors too. Do your research. Try to find out what kind of infection rates, Cesarean rates, etc. they have. Make sure they are board certified (or eligible & applying for board certification if they are fresh out of residency).

Personally, I do think homebirths are safer but only when you are using a well-trained midwife and are dealing with a low-risk pregnancy and are prepared for it. However, not every midwife is going to fit the bill, and you need to educate yourself on pregnancy, labor, and birth in order to make the best decisions and have the best outcome in whatever situation arises (prepare yourself mentally for every possibility). I firmly believe that you can have a bad outcome in a hospital or a homebirth if you choose the wrong provider, and even if you choose a good provider, if you make choices that put you at higher risk of complications, you can have bad outcomes. Pregnancy and labor are not all about you as a mother. Instead, it's a partnership between you, the baby, your partner, and your healthcare provider. You should be the leader in this partnership because you know how you react and you have the most intimate knowledge about what is going on in the pregnancy and how the baby is acting, but it's still a partnership. A delicate ballet if you will between your wishes and hopes, the reality of your/baby's health, and the training/experience/judgment of your provider.
I know few lay midwives who does not carry oxygen. In fact I don't know of any personally, only throught the midwifery grapevine. Those ones are often not spoken well of in the midwifery community I am familiar with. I know when my mother began her training it was pretty intensive. And she was a lay midwife. Due to current laws in the state she lives in she had to take testing, prove her knowledge and experience to be able to practice legally. She must also have proof of yearly ongoing training.

I have heard of a few moron 'midwives' who thought praying over the mother and babe was a good substitute for proper care. I know they did also have some deaths that I heard of. 'Midwives' like them I can see easily skewing results for homebirth. I have no problem with the praying. I am a Christian as well. However to use prayer without actions is rather stupid. You know the old saying. God helps those who help themselves.

I think peoples should research the midwife they choose to birth with whether it be a CNM, direct entry midwife, or CPM. Not all will have the same experience, training, or birthing philosophy. The same as with doctors.

Last edited by qsefthuko; 02-05-2014 at 11:09 AM.
qsefthuko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2014, 11:49 AM   #19
JennTheMomma's Avatar
JennTheMomma
Registered Users
seller
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 7,820
My Mood:
Re: Homebirth increases adverse outcomes and death

It's actually really hard to come up with good stats in the US because each state's requirements, or the lack of, differs. You cannot compare homebirth and hospital birth in the US. Hospital births must be attended by a Doctor, at home it can be any number of people trained and untrained. That right there completely skews the findings. You also cannot compare homebirth in the US to other countries because they are just not the same at all.

Me personally. I had a bad hospital birth so I am already biased. I chose to have my second 2 children at home with trained Midwives (both are college educated in medicine).

I do wish the US would regulate Midwifery like they do with every other medical profession. I know that is not a common thought amongst homebirthers, but I think that in the end it would benefit the country and homebirthers greatly if there was a regulation.
JennTheMomma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2014, 11:54 AM   #20
qsefthuko's Avatar
qsefthuko
Registered Users
sitesupporter
seller
seller
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 17,373
Re: Homebirth increases adverse outcomes and death

Quote:
Originally Posted by JennTheMomma View Post
It's actually really hard to come up with good stats in the US because each state's requirements, or the lack of, differs. You cannot compare homebirth and hospital birth in the US. Hospital births must be attended by a Doctor, at home it can be any number of people trained and untrained. That right there completely skews the findings. You also cannot compare homebirth in the US to other countries because they are just not the same at all.

Me personally. I had a bad hospital birth so I am already biased. I chose to have my second 2 children at home with trained Midwives (both are college educated in medicine).

I do wish the US would regulate Midwifery like they do with every other medical profession. I know that is not a common thought amongst homebirthers, but I think that in the end it would benefit the country and homebirthers greatly if there was a regulation.
More and more states are heading towards regulating midwives in one way or another. And no it isn't popular among the majority of home birthers I know.
qsefthuko is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Copyright 2005 - 2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.