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Old 07-22-2008, 01:12 AM   #11
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Re: Manners... not expected?

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Sadly, rude children are extremely common, and polite ones really stand out. Good for you for raising up a polite little boy. His life will be so much easier for it.
That is so true unfortunately.

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Old 07-22-2008, 02:18 AM   #12
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Re: Manners... not expected?

It's so true, we are surrounded by people who just don't know any better. What I find the worst is the customer service I receive around here. I can't tell you how many times I walk into a restaurant and greet the hostess before they bother saying hello to me, how many times I see the kid at subway who's making my food cussing into his cell phone, etc. let alone being polite when asking you what you want.
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Old 07-22-2008, 02:34 AM   #13
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Re: Manners... not expected?

Well we don't do the please thing, I think it sounds like begging but we do teach thank you, Also we don't teach our boys to be "gentlemen" I think it's sexist. Women want to be equals, men should treat them as such. I don't think lack of what some people call manners makes someone rude. Not everyone lives by the same customs.
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Old 07-22-2008, 03:29 AM   #14
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Re: Manners... not expected?

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I don't think lack of what some people call manners makes someone rude. Not everyone lives by the same customs.
Well said. Etiquette is the list of rules, manners is the delivery of respect. It's poor manners to point out someone else's lack of etiquette.

I think kids go through different stages - toddler/preschoolers are notorious for showing off what they've learned and gaining applauds. 6-7 year olds have habits of being self-absorbed again. 8-9 has shown to be a great year for confidence here, but learning how to make friends comfortable without parent prompting means a lot of mistakes are made. 10-15yos feel awkward and just want to hide sometimes.

Given that there's so many parents on here trying to teach respect to their children, I don't think there's that many intentionally rude ones. Just ones caught at a bad moment or lost in etiquette hell - do they take the time to put the stuff in the cart away or take the screaming toddler out RIGHT NOW?
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Old 07-22-2008, 06:18 AM   #15
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Re: Manners... not expected?

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Well we don't do the please thing, I think it sounds like begging but we do teach thank you, Also we don't teach our boys to be "gentlemen" I think it's sexist. Women want to be equals, men should treat them as such. I don't think lack of what some people call manners makes someone rude. Not everyone lives by the same customs.
I'm curious as to what you consider "manners"... because I consider manners to be things like saying "thank you" and "excuse me"... and I would consider people who don't say "thank you" and "excuse me" rude. I've lived in a few different countries and I've never found ANYWHERE where it was okay or polite to NOT say "thank you" or "excuse me".

I understand that not everyone says "ma'am" and "sir", those aren't necessary for politeness... I can even... kind of... understand your reasoning with please, but certain things are mandatory for basic politeness.

Do you teach excuse me? Are your children required to refer to adults as Mr. and Mrs. or Ms.? I'm just wondering which "manners" you're referring to it being okay to neglect... not being hostile, I just genuinely want to know.
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Old 07-22-2008, 07:05 AM   #16
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Re: Manners... not expected?

When someone responds to my ds's manners in a positive way, that reflects back on my dh and my parenting. I enjoy hearing from strangers, family, friends, how polite my ds is. It helps me to know that all my hard work is paying off.

KaleidoscopeEyes: I will disagree with you a bit on the "please". In the right context, "please" doesn't sound like begging. However, when a child stands there and says, please, please, please, over and over to get something they want, then yes, it sounds like begging. When my ds comes to me and says, "May I ...... please?" I don't find that begging. Now if he came to me and said, "Give me....." that is demanding and it doesn't fly in this house.
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Old 07-22-2008, 07:08 AM   #17
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Re: Manners... not expected?

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When someone responds to my ds's manners in a positive way, that reflects back on my dh and my parenting. I enjoy hearing from strangers, family, friends, how polite my ds is. It helps me to know that all my hard work is paying off.

KaleidoscopeEyes: I will disagree with you a bit on the "please". In the right context, "please" doesn't sound like begging. However, when a child stands there and says, please, please, please, over and over to get something they want, then yes, it sounds like begging. When my ds comes to me and says, "May I ...... please?" I don't find that begging. Now if he came to me and said, "Give me....." that is demanding and it doesn't fly in this house.
ITA

"May I _________ please?" is not only polite, it's excellent grammar.
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Old 07-22-2008, 10:57 AM   #18
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Re: Manners... not expected?

we teach our kids please, thank you, yes ma'am, no sir, etc. from birth too. ramses signed them all before he could talk. we also teach our boys to be gentlemen. seve opens the door for EVERYBODY, not just women, and always offers his seat to women elderly people. i don't think it's sexist in the least. i think it's polite. brae always says "no, thank you" when he doesn't want something and ramses has just learned that "beep beep" isn't okay, instead you say "excuse me" so he now says "suse me peas" when he wants by somebody. we are always complimented on how polite and well behaved our children are. We don't use the whole mister/miss last name thing. Our kids call adults by Mr. or Mrs. first name because that's how they introduce themselves.
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Old 07-22-2008, 11:26 AM   #19
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Re: Manners... not expected?

Just my opinion....

Personally I think that using manners (please, thank you, you're welcome, holding doors, helping people, saying 'yes sir' or 'yes maam' - just wanted to add my opintion of what manners are to us) is simply the act of showing people that YOU think THEY are just as/more important then yourself.

We say please when we ask for something because we realize what we need or what we are wanting may mean that someone else is spending thier time doing it, we say thank you for the same reason, we hold doors because that shows the person behind us that they have worth and we care about them (even if they are a perfect stranger), We say 'yes sir or maam' because it shows those in authority or elder than ourselves that we respect thier wisdom & the natural heirarchy of most cultures.

We try to teach our children that they are owed nothing in this world - other than love and respect. No one is here to serve them specifically, rather we are all here to serve one another - and we show gratitude for that by using our manners. I tend to think that one of the biggest issues with our society in general is that many people feel they are owed everything, and gratitude/respect is not necessary.

Just to add on the sexist statement- and again, this is just my opinion. Not all women want to be 'equals'(as in treated exactly the same) with men. I do not - we are not the same and while I am of no less value & will not be oppressed, I want to be treated differently than a man. I don't want a 'cool guy handshake', I want a soft hand shake or a hug hello, I want the doors held for me. I understand completely that women who are working along side men NEED that synomous treatment in certain ways, but it seems pretty silly to me that a male collegue holding a door for a female counterpart (using the manners his mother raised him to know) might be considered sexist.
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Old 07-22-2008, 11:57 AM   #20
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Re: Manners... not expected?

Do you teach excuse me? Well if they fart/pass gas, sure. If they need to get around someone sure who's blocking their path.

Are your children required to refer to adults as Mr. and Mrs. or Ms.? No, I don't know anyone that does that.

We don't say please to me it sounds like begging and I find it annoying , a simple "may I" sounds polite enough. If others want to teach their kids to do so, that's fine but my kids aren't rude because they don't.

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I'm curious as to what you consider "manners"... because I consider manners to be things like saying "thank you" and "excuse me".
Yes those are manners, but not everyone chooses the same manners to adopt.
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