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Old 07-22-2008, 12:00 PM   #21
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Re: Manners... not expected?

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Just to add on the sexist statement- and again, this is just my opinion. Not all women want to be 'equals'(as in treated exactly the same) with men. I do not - we are not the same and while I am of no less value & will not be oppressed, I want to be treated differently than a man. I don't want a 'cool guy handshake', I want a soft hand shake or a hug hello, I want the doors held for me. I understand completely that women who are working along side men NEED that synomous treatment in certain ways, but it seems pretty silly to me that a male collegue holding a door for a female counterpart (using the manners his mother raised him to know) might be considered sexist.

Well maybe I don't want my son's to hold doors open for women. Women aren't helpless creatures, they aren't better than men and they don't deserve to be treated better than men. Sure it's polite to hold a door open for someone that cannot (maybe someone who has their hands full or a disability prevents them) But to hold a door for someone just because of their sex is downright silly if you ask me.

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Old 07-22-2008, 12:04 PM   #22
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Re: Manners... not expected?

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Well maybe I don't want my son's to hold doors open for women. Women aren't helpless creatures, they aren't better than men and they don't deserve to be treated better than men. Sure it's polite to hold a door open for someone that cannot (maybe someone who has their hands full or a disability prevents them) But to hold a door for someone just because of their sex is downright silly if you ask me.
I hold doors open for the person behind me regardless of their sex... which is how it should be, that's polite. Otherwise you're basically shutting a door in someone's face. And all I know is that I really appreciate all of the men who acted in a gentlemanly manner and gave me their seat on the bus/subway when I was pregnant. And the men who carried groceries for me when I was pregnant. I mean sure, I could have stood and I could have carried the groceries if I had to, but boy was it nice to NOT have to!

I'm still curious as to whether you consider saying "excuse me" necessary for basic politeness? And Mr. and Mrs. or Ms.? I'm just really curious...
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Last edited by kettle; 07-22-2008 at 12:07 PM.
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Old 07-22-2008, 12:08 PM   #23
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Re: Manners... not expected?

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Well maybe I don't want my son's to hold doors open for women. Women aren't helpless creatures, they aren't better than men and they don't deserve to be treated better than men. Sure it's polite to hold a door open for someone that cannot (maybe someone who has their hands full or a disability prevents them) But to hold a door for someone just because of their sex is downright silly if you ask me.
Nope, I'm in no way a helpless woman - I can haul my 11 mo old in a mei tai, 4 Large FRBs and tote 3 other kids to the PO - but it sure feels nice when the gentle man who was walking in the door before me, WAITS for me, holding the door. Just the same as when I pick something up for someone who dropped somthing. It's just 'common' courtesy.

You son doesn't HAVE to hold doors open for women (or men for that matter), but personally I would find it incredibly rude to walk in behind him (Him being an adult in this senerio) and have him not hold the door. People caring and being polite to others makes our world a better place. Whats 4 seconds of your time waiting to hold the door for someone?

Yes, we all have 'different' cultural values, and IMO our societies not doing so hot in this area....
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Old 07-22-2008, 12:08 PM   #24
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I hold doors open for the person behind me regardless of their sex... which is how it should be, that's polite.
Behind you, that's not the same as rushing up to a door, opening it for someone and allowing them to enter first.
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Old 07-22-2008, 12:09 PM   #25
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Yep - good job mama. When I remind my little one of his manners I often hear, "oh it's okay he doesn't have to" or something similar and say "oh yes he does"
Oh that drives me bananas! I expect good manners and I do my best to teach the girls good manners. My DH and I work hard to try and instill these values. We are working on the interrupting, but alas, she is 2, so it's a little bit of a struggle in this "me-centered" age
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Old 07-22-2008, 12:11 PM   #26
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Behind you, that's not the same as rushing up to a door, opening it for someone and allowing them to enter first.
Which also is very polite - it shows people that, again, that they have value and you respect them. I dunno, agree to disagree?
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Old 07-22-2008, 12:12 PM   #27
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Re: Manners... not expected?

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I'm still curious as to whether you consider saying "excuse me" necessary for basic politeness? And Mr. and Mrs. or Ms.? I'm just really curious...
I already explained that in a PP. Again, no one that I know refers to their elder as mr and mrs. Sure, I guess if the old lady down the street wants to be called Ms. whatever rather than Helen, then my children would oblige her wishes.
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Old 07-22-2008, 12:13 PM   #28
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Re: Manners... not expected?

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Which also is very polite - it shows people that, again, that they have value and you respect them. I dunno, agree to disagree?
How can you value and respect a complete stranger?
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Old 07-22-2008, 12:13 PM   #29
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How can you value and respect a complete stranger?
They are a human being.
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Old 07-22-2008, 12:14 PM   #30
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Re: Manners... not expected?

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Behind you, that's not the same as rushing up to a door, opening it for someone and allowing them to enter first.
I just really feel like this is a totally silly thing. If a man opening a door for a woman makes her feel like less of a woman then she wasn't much of a woman to begin with. I don't "expect" a man to do it for me, but I don't find it insulting or belittling either.

Besides, why should women settle for equality when we are obviously the superior sex?
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