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Old 04-25-2013, 09:56 PM   #1531
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Originally Posted by DesertRat

I'm currently reading a book about ancient circumcision written by a Jewish author. At most, ancient circumcision (before the time of Christ) was only the removal of the part of the foreskin that hangs over the edge of the glans. (there's your removal of skin) So it wouldn't really have affected the function of the foreskin. It was changed in the 2nd century AD because there were Jews who were stretching out their foreskins to give the appearance of not being Jewish. (to avoid taxes or play in Roman games) So Rabbis started removing the entire foreskin instead. There was a time (much later) that circumcision only involved a slit in the foreskin due to criticism and persecution over the practice.

Anyway... while that all may be irrelevant to some people, I find that very significant. The original commandment would not have affected sexual function. And with what I've learned about the function of the foreskin, I do find it hard to accept that God would command it's entire removal. So when people say that circumcision can't be that bad since God once commanded it, I think it's important to point this out.
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Old 04-26-2013, 04:06 PM   #1532
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Reading how ancient circumcision may have been different was a pivotal point (to me) when considering circumcision. I've never been pro or anti-circumcision. If it was only my decision, I was of the "leave it alone" mindset. But it seemed a less crucial decision if God once called his people to do the same/similar procedure done today. It was the point of discussion that kept me researching (though I did research with each of my boys, some of which were circ'ed and one that was not) and talking to my husband. I think for conservative Christians in a highly circ'ed area of the country it is a much better "ice breaker" than harsh language or adding your own spin to scripture.
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Old 04-26-2013, 04:32 PM   #1533
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Re: Top ten reasons not to circumcise your son

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Originally Posted by DesertRat View Post
Considering the Bible itself is silent on exactly how the procedure is done, I'd say whatever evidence this author has (other historical records, perhaps?) should at least be considered as relevant to the conversation.

I bring this up, not because I want to argue with how Jews today choose to circumcise (that's their choice), but because I believe the Old Testament and I find it much easier to believe that the original commandment did not involve removing the entire foreskin. I just can't come to terms with the idea that God would command that, knowing it would affect sexual function. I believe that sex is not just for procreation, but also to bring a man and wife closer to together. And I just don't see how permanently diminishing sexual sensitivity (among other things) plays into that.

As far the scripture not saying not to... I think the NT is clear that circumcision was no longer required of Christians. When the gospel of Christ was first taught, it was only taught to the Jews. When the apostles starting teaching among the gentiles, the Christian Jews wanted new converts to practice circumcision as well. The apostles had to explain that it was no longer a requirement of God's people. I read an interesting article that said the reason the apostles weren't more clear about forbidding the practice among Christian Jews was because it was so important to them and didn't want to offend them and their traditions. They believed they would abandon the practice on their own in time... which they did. The practice was abandoned and for CENTURIES Christians have not practiced circumcision. Circumcision among Christians now is a very recent thing-- basically only since doctors starting pushing it.
This is a big deal to me too. I can't see how/why God would command them to do something that would interfere with sexual function. As a Catholic it really troubles me on a theological level. (My degree happens to be in Theology). What is the book you are reading this in?
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Old 04-26-2013, 07:01 PM   #1534
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Originally Posted by BESMama
"If you don't go digging for the info and have no knowledge on it, your ignorant."

Yes, that is the definition of ignorant, but some of us HAVE dug into the facts and still have opted to circ. Please do not assume that because someone disagrees with you that they haven't done their research or clearly understood your position.
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Old 04-27-2013, 06:22 AM   #1535
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Re: Top ten reasons not to circumcise your son

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Originally Posted by DesertRat View Post
Considering the Bible itself is silent on exactly how the procedure is done, I'd say whatever evidence this author has (other historical records, perhaps?) should at least be considered as relevant to the conversation.

I bring this up, not because I want to argue with how Jews today choose to circumcise (that's their choice), but because I believe the Old Testament and I find it much easier to believe that the original commandment did not involve removing the entire foreskin. I just can't come to terms with the idea that God would command that, knowing it would affect sexual function. I believe that sex is not just for procreation, but also to bring a man and wife closer to together. And I just don't see how permanently diminishing sexual sensitivity (among other things) plays into that.

As far the scripture not saying not to... I think the NT is clear that circumcision was no longer required of Christians. When the gospel of Christ was first taught, it was only taught to the Jews. When the apostles starting teaching among the gentiles, the Christian Jews wanted new converts to practice circumcision as well. The apostles had to explain that it was no longer a requirement of God's people. I read an interesting article that said the reason the apostles weren't more clear about forbidding the practice among Christian Jews was because it was so important to them and didn't want to offend them and their traditions. They believed they would abandon the practice on their own in time... which they did. The practice was abandoned and for CENTURIES Christians have not practiced circumcision. Circumcision among Christians now is a very recent thing-- basically only since doctors starting pushing it.
The Bible is silent on exactly how it's done. And maybe your guy is right. But maybe he's crazy. I seriously doubt he has much inside knowledge of the way the procedure was done. Lots of people write books about a lot of things, but many of them are biased with opinion and assumptions. Since you are reading the book and had to guess that his information *might* be from historical records that doesn't speak much credibility to me. So I don't think it's relevant.

I agree with you that circumcision is no longer required of Christians. BUT, it's also not in any way forbidden. It never says don't circumcise. Which means the scripture listed is still incorrect, and I still think it's wrong to present false information as a reason to do, or not do, something.

I look at your article the same way as your book....not sure why that's credible. I am a believer in the Bible, not all authors. Circumcision was not forbidden in the Bible because God did not forbid it--not so people wouldn't be offended. There are many things that offend people in the Bible....If God wanted it forbidden I have no doubt he would have done so.
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Old 04-27-2013, 08:01 PM   #1536
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Re: Top ten reasons not to circumcise your son

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Originally Posted by jen_batten View Post
The Bible is silent on exactly how it's done. And maybe your guy is right. But maybe he's crazy. I seriously doubt he has much inside knowledge of the way the procedure was done. Lots of people write books about a lot of things, but many of them are biased with opinion and assumptions. Since you are reading the book and had to guess that his information *might* be from historical records that doesn't speak much credibility to me. So I don't think it's relevant.
You act as though the Bible is the only source of historical information. I've read multiple places about how circumcision changed in the 2nd century AD so that Jews couldn't stretch out their foreskin to hide their circumcision. It's not that hard to believe.

And there are lots of things that God doesn't forbid by spelling it out. One thing I do believe though more than ANYTHING-- I believe that in the God-given right to freedom of choice. And choosing to have a very sensitive part of one's genitals removed, that will forever ALTER their sexual experience, is a choice that only that person should make for themselves.
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Old 04-28-2013, 06:14 AM   #1537
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Re: Top ten reasons not to circumcise your son

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You act as though the Bible is the only source of historical information. I've read multiple places about how circumcision changed in the 2nd century AD so that Jews couldn't stretch out their foreskin to hide their circumcision. It's not that hard to believe.

And there are lots of things that God doesn't forbid by spelling it out. One thing I do believe though more than ANYTHING-- I believe that in the God-given right to freedom of choice. And choosing to have a very sensitive part of one's genitals removed, that will forever ALTER their sexual experience, is a choice that only that person should make for themselves.
No, the Bible isn't the only source of historical information. But just because some lady says she read a book by some author who *might* have historical records doesn't exactly convince me, ya know? I mean, I've read a lot of stuff over the years, some of it good, and some of it total hogwash. It would also be my guess that you've read that a lot because you are looking for authors that agree with you since that's what you want to believe. I don't care to look into it, but I'm betting I could find some authors with a different opinion.

I believe in choice too. Parents have the choice whether to circumcise their boys or not.

ETA: I'm also curious to know what you think God forbids, but does not say so.

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Old 04-28-2013, 08:26 AM   #1538
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Re: Top ten reasons not to circumcise your son

and boys should also have the right to choose what happens to their penis and what doesn't
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Old 04-28-2013, 04:45 PM   #1539
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Re: Top ten reasons not to circumcise your son

^this^
It isn't YOUR body. Therefore, it should not be YOUR choice.
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Old 04-28-2013, 05:01 PM   #1540
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Originally Posted by jen_batten View Post

No, the Bible isn't the only source of historical information. But just because some lady says she read a book by some author who *might* have historical records doesn't exactly convince me, ya know? I mean, I've read a lot of stuff over the years, some of it good, and some of it total hogwash. It would also be my guess that you've read that a lot because you are looking for authors that agree with you since that's what you want to believe. I don't care to look into it, but I'm betting I could find some authors with a different opinion.

I believe in choice too. Parents have the choice whether to circumcise their boys or not.

ETA: I'm also curious to know what you think God forbids, but does not say so.
I don't understand the argument that its the parents choice...
So the parents choice what happens to their little boys genitals but they can't decide on their daughters....

If one gender is protect then the other should be too.

I'm mobile.... sorry for the typos!
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