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Old 04-30-2013, 06:19 AM   #1581
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There is no bashing going on. Its a discussion on a topic that isn't talked about enough in the US.

There is no name calling or bashing of any sort. This thread it to spark curiosity so mamas do their own research as to why circ is not necessary.

If someone feels this thread is bashing maybe they need to reevaluate their feeling on circ.... because their is no bashing of the "other side" here just an open discussion.

I'm mobile.... sorry for the typos!

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Old 04-30-2013, 07:18 AM   #1582
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Re: Top ten reasons not to circumcise your son

I haven't seen anyone being ridiculed or called stupid idiots. What I have seen is the great divide in every intact vs circ conversation: some people just cannot see it as a human rights violation. That is the big disconnect, that is why people can't understand why it is "such a big deal". Some people see the foreskin as an optional piece of skin that belongs to them until their child reaches a certain age and the parents retain the rights to make decisions regarding it. Some people see the foreskin as a part of a whole child who is there own person and should have the right to choose whether they want a healthy, normally functioning body part, however small, removed. And as someone who left that choice up to my sons I really have a hard time understanding how people don't see it the same way once it has been explained.

I was actually pro-circ until I had my first son, my (circumcised) husband said no circ because it is pointless. He doesn't hate his mom, he knows she did the best she could with the information she had but he was not willing to continue the practice with our sons. I balked against it, my mom had always talked about my intact cousin being ugly and I didn't want people thinking that about my sons. Then one day it clicked, I didn't care what other people thought, I knew my son was a whole, normal boy and that was the way he was supposed to be. Looking back I don't think I was ignorant, I was just conditioned by my culture to think that intact penises were gross and that circumcision was the clean, right thing to do.


*my husband does not mind that I talk about his experience online.
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Last edited by Leah52; 04-30-2013 at 08:45 AM. Reason: clarification
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Old 04-30-2013, 07:51 AM   #1583
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I wholeheartedly agree that we as a society have wen told that circumcision has been touted as "the best and most attractive". I am also a mom of three circ'd boys because I did what everyone else do when I had them. I don't regret it because I didn't have the knowledge that there was an alternative. When DH's cousin was born he wasn't circ'd bc his mom was already high at the hospital by end of day 1 and wouldn't sign anything. I thought it was weird and knew he would get an infection of some kind. He did many times. His mom (a true gem :rollseyes only bathed him every few weeks and probably only changed 2-4 diapers a day (from birth) until he went and lived with my MIL. That is all I knew of being intact.
And no I'm not sensitive and I don't care what you call me because I just dot get caught up in name calling. Yes certain people in this thread have never to my knowledge called someone an idiot or moron outright (maybe its another thread I'm thinking of?) but toeing the line and saying everything but that is no different.
Yes it's a human right. It's also a human right to parent your child the best way you can. If your child was harmed with the administration of a single vaccine you can't undo it. You cant UNvaccinate someone. Does that mean that everyone who vaccinated should never do it because of the small risk? No it means it isn't right for that child in your family. Should the parent be made to feel like a lesser parent because they made a choice knowing the inherent risk is very small but the possible reward could be great? No they shouldn't.
Knowledge is a very powerful thing and you can't be on the defensive all the time if you want to share that knowledge with other people. I'm not saying everyone here has come off as rude or insulting, just a few people.
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Old 04-30-2013, 08:38 AM   #1584
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Re: Top ten reasons not to circumcise your son

Quote:
Originally Posted by kushie tushie View Post
There is no bashing going on. Its a discussion on a topic that isn't talked about enough in the US.

There is no name calling or bashing of any sort. This thread it to spark curiosity so mamas do their own research as to why circ is not necessary.

If someone feels this thread is bashing maybe they need to reevaluate their feeling on circ.... because their is no bashing of the "other side" here just an open discussion.

I'm mobile.... sorry for the typos!
I agree with you I think we've remained very civil. Now most circ threads do not, and there is name calling and ugliness, but I've not seen it here. Except for ignorant, which may or may not apply. But overall I think this has been really tame.
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Old 04-30-2013, 09:20 AM   #1585
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Re: Top ten reasons not to circumcise your son

I sincerely apologize to those who feel like they've been put down or attacked for their choices. Unfortunately, the nature of the circumcision debate isn't going to leave everyone with warm fuzzies.

It's not like other parenting decisions where you feed your baby, whether by bottle or breast or homemade or canned baby food. Or like the CIO vs co-sleeping debate where eventually the baby just has to get to sleep. The difference in the circumcision debate is that nobody has to do anything to a boy's penis for it to be healthy. When you break down the statistics, a boy is actually more likely to have a complication with his circumcision than with his foreskin. So the point people are trying to make is, "hey, you don't have to do anything! You can leave it alone! You can leave the choice up to the child!"

Like I touched on in an earlier post, I don't think parents are making bad choices. I think we've all been conditioned by society and the medical community to believe things that aren't really true or entirely accurate. And it's only very recently that parents have had access to resources to get "the other side of the story" when it comes to circumcision and the benefits of being intact. It's going to take a long time to re-train doctors into believing that the foreskin isn't a problem waiting to happen, and to teach them how to properly care for an intact penis. Meanwhile, parents of intact boys face a regular battle against those who say foreskins are dirty and ugly, or that something is wrong with our normally-developing boys.
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Old 04-30-2013, 09:41 AM   #1586
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Re: Top ten reasons not to circumcise your son

To make a quick comparison-- in parts of Africa where girls are circumcised, there is a lot of societal pressure to do it. African women believe that circumcision leaves them cleaner and more likely to find a suitable husband. They believe it's related to fertility and purity as well. It's mothers who insist their little girls be circumcised because they know their opportunities for marriage will be better if they do. There is a very real advantage to being circumcised.

In those places where female circumcision is normal, are women's genitals really dirtier or less attractive uncut? Are men right in believing it looks better or that there are advantages to marrying a circumcised woman? Or are these things myths and misconceptions they've been taught to believe over the generations?

I've had one person go on and on and on about how gross and nasty looking a foreskin is and how she'll circumcise her boys "because all women prefer a cut penis." I couldn't even pick my jaw up off the floor in time for a comeback. How is her opinion (conditioned by the society we live in) any different than what's believed in Africa? And I sincerely ask, are men's uncut genitals really gross and dirty? Is it really more attractive to be with a circumcised man? Or have we all just been conditioned to believe those things?

I read a story about a 7 year old African girl who got tired of her friends calling her dirty, so she went and tied a string around her clitoris and cut it off with a knife. Is her story all that different from an intact boy who got tired of being teased in the locker room and asked to be circumcised to fit in? Would the African girl's story be less horrific if she had been able to go to a hospital to have her circumcision done by a doctor?

I sincerely believe that little boys are born perfect. And I can not believe that we somehow improve on God's design of the male form by altering our children's genitals.
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Old 04-30-2013, 09:49 AM   #1587
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Re: Top ten reasons not to circumcise your son

Desertrat-- a medical reason is not the only reason (or for some families, even part of the reason) why a family might choose to circumcise. It is like other parenting issues in that it is not as black and white as people like to make it.

Also, I've been thinking about your statement (er...I think it was yours, anyway) about the medical community sugar coating circumcision. I don't know that sugar coating is the way I would put it, but I do think that there needs to be more information given about both sides of the matter. You can't have informed consent without being informed. And I think this is a huge issue all across the medical field. People are not informed enough about the risks and benefits of most medical procedures. Cesareans, episiotomy, vaccinations, even formula feeding. I think there needs to be more information all the way around. I think in our culture people (not so much on this forum, but the general population) just take a Dr's word for things without even really ever thinking of the consequences or other options. It's sad. And I think people should be doing research for themselves, but really America's "informed" consent is a joke.
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Old 04-30-2013, 09:54 AM   #1588
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Re: Top ten reasons not to circumcise your son

You posted while I did. Not sure what you want said about that. It's not that much different than moms who choose to formula feed because breastfeeding is "nasty". Or even the kindergartener who spikes his hair because his friends do. Many things are culture driven. I think it's something to take into consideration, personally.

Last edited by jen_batten; 04-30-2013 at 11:43 AM.
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Old 04-30-2013, 11:30 AM   #1589
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Re: Top ten reasons not to circumcise your son

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Originally Posted by jen_batten View Post
You posted why I did. Not sure what you want said about that. It's not that much different than moms who choose to formula feed because breastfeeding is "nasty". Or even the kindergartener who spikes his hair because his friends do. Many things are culture driven. I think it's something to take into consideration, personally.
So you're okay with female circumcision too, as long as everyone is doing it?

I guess this is what really divides us... because I don't think bottle feeding or spiky hair or CIO or co-sleeping or feeding your child ding dongs now and then is that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things. None of those things is really permanent.

On the other hand, cutting off a child's foreskin will result in diminished penile sensitivity as an adult, and permanently alters the sexual experience. That's 100% guarantee. And for me, that's a really big deal.
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Old 04-30-2013, 11:42 AM   #1590
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Re: Top ten reasons not to circumcise your son

I already posted my feelings on female circumcision a couple pages back in response to kuishie tushie. I'll save myself a bit of time and ask that you read it there.

Spikey hair is short lived, that's true. Effects of many other patenting decisions are not. Bottle feeders have lower immune systems and higher obesity rates. And not just while they are infants. They also have lower IQ than their breastfeeding counterparts. You can't undo that. Anti CIO people will say that it causes changes in the baby's brain. That's permanent. Vaccinations cannot be undone and can have life altering effects for many children. A child's tastes develop early, if you start them on junk they will spend a lifetime overcoming that--if they can manage to overcome it at all, and it will have negative health effects if they do not. There are many many more parenting decisions that are just as permanent and just as big a deal (IMO) as circumcision.

ETA as far as everyone doing it, I don't really think that's a great reason to do something. But we are very culture driven and it's true most everyone wants to fit in. So while that may not sway someone to do (or not do) something, I think it is important to keep in mind that if you are going against cultural norms then you need to be prepared that there may be some ill effects from that. That's something you need to prepare yourself or your child for, though I'm not specifically speaking about circumcision here, just general.

Last edited by jen_batten; 04-30-2013 at 11:49 AM.
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